which first synth to explain synthesis ? substractive & additive

VST, AU, AAX, CLAP, etc. Plugin Virtual Instruments Discussion
RELATED
PRODUCTS

Post

He's clearly going to enjoy making weird noises more than knowing about signal flow.
As he's already learning and practicing piano scores at level 5, he's not going to like to create bleeps and weird noises for a very long time ... :D

And also, even though he had extremely limited screen time for the first 6 years of his life
( I know : I'm a mean dad that has forbidden his son to spend hours drooling in front of a screen :ud: ) he's been fiddling already with synthesizers presets and making zaps, burps and the like ...

For the moment, his favourite synth GUI is ACE from u-he.

Post

By the way, I fully agree with the comments suggesting that a hardware version could be better ... except that the oscilloscope on hardware synth is often so tiny that it becomes a bit useless ... :roll:
And tbh, I would have loved to be able to use my old hardware synths as pedagogical tools .. however, the models I still own are far from being adapted for beginners imho ... but some of you might disagree :?:

Yamaha SY-99 : highly complex to program on its screen.
Korg Wavestation EX & M1 : the M1 could be a starting point but the keyboard is too "plasticy" ...
Kurzweil K2000 : this one is a wonderful beast to program ... in all meanings of the word "beast" : it's powerful but really not for kids ...

It's true that hardware synths or controllers have many buttons and could be seen as good learning tools, but often their screens are still "eye killers" imho ...

I think my setup is more comfortable for the eyes and use, as my Clavia Nord Piano is facing a 32" curved screen ( with a Behringer X-Touch One to control the DAW )

When I have to look at the screen and explain things to someone sitting by my side, it's easy as it is huge ( and if the person can sit next to me and still have 3 octaves available on the keyboard, it's a real bonus when teaching things ) ...

Post

Vince wrote: Thu Dec 14, 2023 3:53 pm
vurt wrote: Thu Dec 14, 2023 1:31 pm
Vince wrote: Wed Dec 13, 2023 5:06 pm Hello,

I would like to start teaching sound creations and synthesizers use to my 10 years old son.
you wish to teach him, but does he wish to learn?
if he's eager, id imagine he'll pick it up no matter what you use, if not, he may never grasp it no matter how simple you make it.
As a side comment, please let me describe how eager he is to learn synth :wink: ... so he started attending music schools when he was 4, first in those kids classes ( he had a lot of fun and wanted the classes to be every day ) ... then he started learning the piano ( classical, in an academy ) when he was 6 ... and now he's 10, he jumped from level 3 to level 5 in piano ( at the request of his piano teacher ) and he's a huge fan of the work of Kraftwerk, Vangelis, Vince Clark, Depeche Mode, Brian Eno, Rammstein, etc ... ( on top of the usual Bach, Mozart, Chopin, Litsz, Rachmaninov, etc ).

I dont mean he's a virtuose or that he wants to become a star. Nope. He told me once that he hears a lot of new melodies in his head and would like to play them in real. That's his drive. :love:

Myself, I have 10 signed deals with Sony/Scorpio Music around 20 years ago ... so he's all the time surrounded by music and musicians ... but, like it has been underlined by other users, I would like to keep it fun to create bonds with my son ( as he will "soon" reach teenagers time and will start to see me as an old fart for few years ... but that's another topic :D )
Well, I owned my first computer, a Commodore Vic-20, at the age of 10. I was involved in the BBS world before the internet. I work in IT these days. The kid sounds like he's perfectly interested and perfectly capable to learn and do pretty much what he wants to do. Has he given any input as to what he might be interested in? There have been several really great suggestions, and based on the bands you've named, he sounds like he would do well with a classic analog style subtractive synth. I would recommend Repro (or maybe TAL's Jupiter 8), because they sound fantastic, and sound is everything--and you can do a lot with either of them. However, you may want to also consider getting something that he won't grow out of too easily--such as Diva. I know there will be some that will question how I could possibly recommend Diva--just look at all of those knobs!! SCARY!! Well, the truth of it is, that it is essentially an oscillator section, a filter section, envelope, etc.... Just like everything else. It just has swappable options to allow for more diversity. This kid really sounds like he'd be able to do it with no problem. Diva even comes with template presets that prepatch all of the important parts to make a Jupiter 8, Juno, Korg MS-20, etc, etc..You would still be doing basic subtractive synthesis, but would have a lot more room for growth.

But back to my point--what does the kid find interesting? That will be an important factor.

Edit: I forgot to mention that Diva has a built-in Oscilloscope.
Last edited by audiojunkie on Fri Dec 15, 2023 12:15 am, edited 1 time in total.
Vendor‑Dependent Copy Protection: Customers lose. Pirates win.:mad:
(Also: I'm Accused of lying about Linux—it boots, runs my pro audio workflow, stays stable, updates--though yearly dismissed as “niche”. Yet I'm the deluded one.)
:roll:

Post

Vince wrote: Thu Dec 14, 2023 9:34 pm
He's clearly going to enjoy making weird noises more than knowing about signal flow.
As he's already learning and practicing piano scores at level 5, he's not going to like to create bleeps and weird noises for a very long time ... :D

And also, even though he had extremely limited screen time for the first 6 years of his life
( I know : I'm a mean dad that has forbidden his son to spend hours drooling in front of a screen :ud: ) he's been fiddling already with synthesizers presets and making zaps, burps and the like ...

For the moment, his favourite synth GUI is ACE from u-he.
If he loves ACE, that's a perfect synth for him to learn on and grow into. It's got all of the subtractive basics. It has default wiring, and needs no cables to begin with. It has an oscilloscope. Plus it's a modulation playground. :)
Last edited by audiojunkie on Fri Dec 15, 2023 12:19 am, edited 1 time in total.
Vendor‑Dependent Copy Protection: Customers lose. Pirates win.:mad:
(Also: I'm Accused of lying about Linux—it boots, runs my pro audio workflow, stays stable, updates--though yearly dismissed as “niche”. Yet I'm the deluded one.)
:roll:

Post

Vince wrote: Thu Dec 14, 2023 10:25 pm Yamaha SY-99 : highly complex to program on its screen.
Korg Wavestation EX & M1 : the M1 could be a starting point but the keyboard is too "plasticy" ...
Kurzweil K2000 : this one is a wonderful beast to program ... in all meanings of the word "beast" : it's powerful but really not for kids ...
Yeah those are all great synths but would be terrible to unleash on a 10 year old.

I am not about to recommend a modular synth for a 10 year old, but as a dispassionate observer with no strong feelings about the above debate I will point out one advantage of them. You could start small and very simple and slowly add components once he mastered them. This can help isolate concepts... up to a point.

For example, start with just an oscillator module and a filter module into a VCA. Get him to understand the relationships there, how the different waves sound, how the filter affects them, etc. Then add a second osc and show him how those can be used together to create a thicker sound, a stacked fifth, etc. And then add an envelope module to control the filter and spend time with him to understand ADSR. And then a second envelope for the VCA. And finally add a LFO to modulate things to complete showing basic modulation. You now have a pretty capable but basic monosynth. Just use bog-standard CV routings here, because this is where the huge disadvantage for teaching starts - ignore the bajillion *possible* modulation options you already have at this stage, unless he asks. You can get to those much later.

At this point you can teach almost all the fundamentals of subtractive synthesis.

Now at this stage this has a serious, serious disadvantage - analysis paralysis. There *are* a bajillion possible modulations at this stage to explore. You don't want him to get deep in the weeds with that. This is why I would say - you can use modular to start slow with him, but a some point in that process, you could switch to one of the many great analog emulations people have mentioned in this thread and go with that instead. In fact I think he would be *much* better served by applying his skills on a few different basic synths than he would to go deep in modular at this stage. He can go crazy playing with weird and cool modulations later, once he has the basics down.

Post

BASIC by Audio Damage was designed to be a "learning" synth ...
https://www.audiodamage.com/pages/free-and-legacy

Image

Post

Vital is a great choice but honestly any virtual analog synth should be fine. I think Syntorial is cool but would probably bore the poor kid. Modular is fun but a bit niche and won't really represent the types of synths he's mostly likely to come across later on.
Image

Post

Pick your own favorite synth, that will make you an inspiring and knowledgeable teacher.
Focus on the features he is interested in, save the rest of the interface for later.
If he is hooked, soon he will challenge you, so this way you are fully prepared.

Post

audiojunkie wrote: Fri Dec 15, 2023 12:14 am
Vince wrote: Thu Dec 14, 2023 9:34 pm
He's clearly going to enjoy making weird noises more than knowing about signal flow.
As he's already learning and practicing piano scores at level 5, he's not going to like to create bleeps and weird noises for a very long time ... :D

And also, even though he had extremely limited screen time for the first 6 years of his life
( I know : I'm a mean dad that has forbidden his son to spend hours drooling in front of a screen :ud: ) he's been fiddling already with synthesizers presets and making zaps, burps and the like ...

For the moment, his favourite synth GUI is ACE from u-he.
If he loves ACE, that's a perfect synth for him to learn on and grow into. It's got all of the subtractive basics. It has default wiring, and needs no cables to begin with. It has an oscilloscope. Plus it's a modulation playground. :)
Yup... and when he wants to dig into some FM and Feedback and unusual routing, it's all there waiting. It's a great little playground and sounds very good. :tu:

Post

Vince wrote: Wed Dec 13, 2023 5:06 pm Hello,

I would like to start teaching sound creations and synthesizers use to my 10 years old son.

Ideally, I would like to start with a synth with 1 oscillator ( 2 max ), some ADSR control, filter + 1 LFO because kids can be intimidated by many buttons, and parameters. If there's an oscilloscope integrated, it would be a bonus.

I own NI 14 Komplete Ultimate, Tone2 Icarus, the whole Arturia Collection, Zebra & ACE, Rob Papen Explorer 9, Synthmaster 2, FL Studio complete ( all of them are legit guys, so please do not PM me to get a copy :wink: ).

Is there in my bundles a tiny synth that I have missed that could fit my requirement ? or a freebie ? :phones:

Thanks for your help

Kind Regards
Vincent
You have tons

Something like the Juno V would be a great starter for Subtractive because of its simplicity and relatively few controls.

That said Pigments could probably be a nice one as well since it is fairly visual (although complex).

Many of the Arturia ones though,

MiniV
Obxd
Jupiter V

Are all fairly basic subtractive synths with fairly "easy" GUIs.

NI has Super 8 and Soundschool Analog (which I think is a tutorial synth)

Soundschool is fairly uninspiring though.

Post

Pretty much every form of synthesis in one box, with visual feedback of most every parameter. Build your own synths/effects. :party:

X-mas sale 70% off = $59.00

https://karmafx.net/buy

I'm not a musician, but I've designed sounds that others use to make music. http://soundcloud.com/obsidiananvil

Post

Vince wrote: Wed Dec 13, 2023 5:06 pm Hello,

I would like to start teaching sound creations and synthesizers use to my 10 years old son.

Ideally, I would like to start with a synth with 1 oscillator ( 2 max ), some ADSR control, filter + 1 LFO because kids can be intimidated by many buttons, and parameters. If there's an oscilloscope integrated, it would be a bonus.

I own NI 14 Komplete Ultimate, Tone2 Icarus, the whole Arturia Collection, Zebra & ACE, Rob Papen Explorer 9, Synthmaster 2, FL Studio complete ( all of them are legit guys, so please do not PM me to get a copy :wink: ).

Is there in my bundles a tiny synth that I have missed that could fit my requirement ? or a freebie ? :phones:

Thanks for your help

Kind Regards
Vincent
The juno V seems like a good candidate

Post

Shabdahbriah wrote: Sun Dec 17, 2023 8:12 am Pretty much every form of synthesis in one box, with visual feedback of most every parameter. Build your own synths/effects. :party:

X-mas sale 70% off = $59.00

https://karmafx.net/buy

That looks amazing, I am kind of surprised I hadn't heard of it before. It's like an even more modular Phase Plant.

Post

stoopicus wrote: Sun Dec 17, 2023 9:36 pm
Shabdahbriah wrote: Sun Dec 17, 2023 8:12 am Pretty much every form of synthesis in one box, with visual feedback of most every parameter. Build your own synths/effects. :party:

X-mas sale 70% off = $59.00

https://karmafx.net/buy

That looks amazing, I am kind of surprised I hadn't heard of it before. It's like an even more modular Phase Plant.
that is an 11 yr old video...the update added granular and more...every holiday season we have the thread on it being underrated lol...definitely good value at holiday price
Music had a one night stand with sound design.....And the condom broke

Post

Yeah I have no idea how I missed this one :lol:

Post Reply

Return to “Instruments”