Live 12 or Bitwig 5.1

[dellboy]

I do not own Live, but It's supposed to have a crash recovery folder.........


Windows
Users\[Username]\AppData\Roaming\Ableton\Live x.x.x\Preferences\Crash\
Mac
Users/[Username]/Library/Preferences/Ableton/Live x.x.x/Crash/

[Trancit]

...
In the Bitwig forum I see to 99% just praise that it doesn´t crash ever ... never saw this praise about Ableton... and the Bitwig cases are often about beta versions...

...

I'm just letting you know that Bitwig beta versions can crash. It's only worth playing with them and diligently reporting the crashes, but that's kind of normal

Please reread my original post... I marked it for you...

btw. another advantage is that the Splice version of Bitwig at 25 months times 16 dollars (400 dollars over 2 years) is roughly the same as paying for Bitwig plus one year of updates (300+100 dollars, during discount periods) but you don't have to pay it all at once, and you'll have the non-producer version (I think)

It's only approximate because you can extend it by half a year(or 1-2x half a year) with a lucky beta period. My license expired two days after the start of the 5.1 beta period, and yet I still got version 5.1

This was my choice as well... still 5 month left to pay...

[xbitz]

btw. someone wrote that their biggest issue with StudioOne is its instability. For me, it could only load the VST3 plugins (including its own Pro EQ) after restarting my Mac(luckily). I nearly cursed as well, since it wasn't a quick ten minutes to set up those darn compressors. It really seems like Bitwig is the remaining option then.

(happened now, macbook pro M1, 14.1.1 Sonoma, Studio6.5 demo version)

ps. off in off the trick part of the original manual of the Empirical Labs EL8 https://www.empiricallabs.com/wp-conten ... manual.pdf is brilliant from the "Classic Emulation"
"Fool proof operation - Even though there are 384 possible settings (not counting knob settings),
it's almost impossible to get a bad sound. Keep all knobs on 5 or 6 (around middle) with ratio at
6:1 and you won't go wrong" that's the spirit

[Ou_Tis]

I've had Bitwig crash many times. Cubase too.

I switched from Bitwig to Live a few months ago and haven't noticed significantly more crashes. Though Live has crashed at some odd times (like editing the pitch bend of one particular midi note---not even playing it back---it crashed repeatedly before I was finally able to do it).

One thing I really dislike about Live relative to Bitwig is the bad workflow design. In Bitwig I can search for a plugin and click on it. In Live I have to click through VST3 -> Manufacturer name -> Plugin. Two unnecessary clicks. In Bitwig I can rename plugin instance headers, which is very useful when I'm trying to A/B many different settings. In Live? Only for native devices apparently. Ridiculous.

But my Seaboard Rise 2 works properly with Live and not with Bitwig, so I've switched to Live as my primary DAW. I might consider switching back to Bitwig if the controller script gets updated to more accurately record pitchbend automation from the Rise 2.

I was also fed up with third-party plugins not working properly in Bitwig, and support not being willing to help. (Plugin developer says ask Bitwig support, Bitwig support says ask plugin developer.) Whereas it seems like just about everything gets tested in Ableton. Since I generally only use third-party plugins (which are almost always going to be better (aside from cpu usage and stability)---with Ableton's Glue compressor being one exception) it's almost a no-brainer.

And Bitwig's lack of midi comping is another major negative, though I had kept hoping they would fix that.

[SLiC]

And Bitwig's lack of midi comping is another major negative, though I had kept hoping they would fix that.

Didn't we all, surprising we have had so many new versions without addressing this, it doesn't seem like it would be a difficult thing to do (and obviously Live did both together as you would expect).

Bitwig Developers seem focused on 'sound design' as a first priority, hence spectral resonators before a groove pool or 'more filters' before midi comping...I am sure all these things will come eventually.

[machinesworking]

Tbh... I don´t want to rely on an M4L devce for this...
If a DAW is as easy to crash as Ableton... and no, I am not the only one... imho it should have better options (user defineable) natively...

Ableton does not have the reputation of being an easy to crash DAW, that's your confirmation bias at work here. Like I mentioned it's absolutely your right to not want to spend the time to find out why Live is crashing on your system, but if you do not do that, then spend time on the internet dissing on Live for being unstable, that's just plainly ridiculous. Like I mentioned, if I haven't messed with a DAW for months on end on my system and attempt to use it there's a good chance that any number of plugin updates or new plugins or system settings etc. will make it a mess. That's not on Logic or Reaper etc. when that happens, it's on me to figure out what is hanging or crashing the DAW.

I have to address this as well, influencers on youtube are not good examples. Don't let you or your kids be fooled. I've pretty much given up on watching youtube videos for information and I absolutely don't trust them for insight into software stability etc. Have you ever noticed how little actual content there is in their regulation ten minutes to get commercial sponsoring snips? That's exactly because of the rules youtube has, two minutes of content becomes ten minutes of some dork you never met acting like he's your friend, he's not, he knows probably less than you.

[vertibration]

TBH, I also chose Bitwig because their built in instruments are really good. The synths, and the Grid is just so damn good. The way its all set up....man its hard to not have fun with it.

[Ou_Tis]

TBH, I also chose Bitwig because their built in instruments are really good. The synths, and the Grid is just so damn good. The way its all set up....man its hard to not have fun with it.

Do you have an example of their built in instruments sounding "really good"? You really think Organ and Polysynth sound good?

Some Grid stuff I've heard with Bitwig devices only is interesting, but more in a "it's cool that they were able to assemble that weird complicated thing", not in a "that actually sounds good, or like something I'd ever use in a track" way....

And putting Grid devices together can be a mildly interesting intellectual puzzle, but I'd much rather learn actual broadly meaningful math (that has enduring abstract value, instead of wasting time on highly contingent puzzle conditions)....

[vertibration]

TBH, I also chose Bitwig because their built in instruments are really good. The synths, and the Grid is just so damn good. The way its all set up....man its hard to not have fun with it.

Do you have an example of their built in instruments sounding "really good"? You really think Organ and Polysynth sound good?

Some Grid stuff I've heard with Bitwig devices only is interesting, but more in a "it's cool that they were able to assemble that weird complicated thing", not in a "that actually sounds good, or like something I'd ever use in a track" way....

And putting Grid devices together can be a mildly interesting intellectual puzzle, but I'd much rather learn actual broadly meaningful math (that has enduring abstract value, instead of wasting time on highly contingent puzzle conditions)....

no i dont have any examples, because I dont care enough to go out of my way to show you something you can look up yourself on youtube

[SLiC]

Personally I think Polymer is about the only instrument of note in Bitwig, everything has now been sort of rolled in to that. There is a lot better choice in Live Suite (but then you pay more for that). Live has Drift (MPE VA), Analog (-AAS VA) Collision (AAS Physical modelling) Electric (AAS modelled electric pianos), Tension (AAS Physical modeling string synthesizer) ,Bass ( monophonic VA), Operator (classic FM and subtractive synthesis updated for V12), Poli (Poly VA), Wavetable, Meld (a bit like Micro Freak, new in V12) and Granulator III - and all work as hardware synths in PUSH 3 SA which is pretty cool

[Biscotto]

Wrong: Always crashes... just one time I lost all! That´s a bit of a difference!

So let me get this straight.

You have demoed Live in the past, according to your post in another thread, and while in demo mode, it crashed various times and did recover your work as you reported.
That’s already a red flag…

Then you get inspired by v12 and you buy the Suite (past knowledge = Crashes) without properly demo it…

You know Ableton crashes on you (for some strange reason) but you go ahead and work on a production without saving (crashing amnesia?) and you complaining that Ableton has crashed on you and “have being crashing on a regular basis” as stated in your above quote….?

Then someone suggested to use a M4L device for auto-save and you have the audacity to say that you will not use something not built in (M4L is Live and devices blends quite well in it and getting better and better with stability) but you rather rely on your lack of awareness in saving your work (proving M4L is a better choice than your own responsibility for your own “precious” work)?

You have 3 choices:

1 - Sale the damn thing before it becomes history.

2 - Keep it and try to understand what’s going on with your system.

3 - Keep it and get the included upgrade to v12 and see if it works better with your system or whatever…

Also, complaining about the Browser “as is” is understandable but you know that a new browser is coming which means complaining for something that is not going to be with you in the near future, is a waste of time because is a momentary issue and you make it sound like a burden for life…

Ableton is above you head/temperament. Sell it and move on.

I did an entire year full immersion in Bitwig (overall not a pleasant experience but I gave it a year of production before making a competent and objective decision) and for sure it never crashed on me.

If that’s important to you then Bitwig is your solution.

If the DAW, as an ecosystem is more important, then pick that one and learn to work with its not so bright aspect, in your case: save your freaking work and if you don’t have the discipline for it then get the Dreadful M4L device to save you butt.

Sorry for the blunt post but you’re not new to this world of production and somehow you have been sounding like an amateur, and quite the opposite, you are not , you seem to know your craft quite well (that’s my impression).

[Ou_Tis]

TBH, I also chose Bitwig because their built in instruments are really good. The synths, and the Grid is just so damn good. The way its all set up....man its hard to not have fun with it.

Do you have an example of their built in instruments sounding "really good"? You really think Organ and Polysynth sound good?

Some Grid stuff I've heard with Bitwig devices only is interesting, but more in a "it's cool that they were able to assemble that weird complicated thing", not in a "that actually sounds good, or like something I'd ever use in a track" way....

And putting Grid devices together can be a mildly interesting intellectual puzzle, but I'd much rather learn actual broadly meaningful math (that has enduring abstract value, instead of wasting time on highly contingent puzzle conditions)....

no i dont have any examples, because I dont care enough to go out of my way to show you something you can look up yourself on youtube

Tried skipping through a bunch of Youtube videos. I did find two Phase-4 examples I like (when it's drenched in reverb). FM-4 is okay, Organ and Polysynth suck.

This one sounds good at the beginning, which I'd assume actually is Phase-4:



... but starts sounding painfully crappy around 12 seconds in.

This Phase-4 pad sounds pretty decent after they drench it in (non-Bitwig) reverb:

[enCiphered]

I can highly recommend you to get hands-on and extensively test Bitwig's instruments yourself. The sound, as a pure raw criterion, is fantastic and crystal clear, compared to similar instruments in other DAWs or third-party plugins. The short example videos you've linked lack depth; perhaps you can get a better insight here:
But as mentioned, better try for yourself if you can find the time.

(I wish I could remove those silly faces from the YT thumbnails but I can´t. Sorry for that)

[kmonkey]

One thing I really dislike about Live relative to Bitwig is the bad workflow design. In Bitwig I can search for a plugin and click on it. In Live I have to click through VST3 -> Manufacturer name -> Plugin. Two unnecessary clicks.

Do you realize you can use Favorites in Live? You name your favorite item like "Instruments" and then you tag the instrument that you intend to use with your music. No more browsing or unnecessary clicking.

Whenever you want you click on a favorite and your instruments are there. You just click and drag it to your session anywhere.

That's exactly two clicks away. One click to the favorite item "Instruments" and then another click or click and drag above your instrument. Done. No need to search for anything or even type in the search field anything at all. You can tag as many instruments to that particular favorite item as yo want though I am finding it hard to believe that sane people use more than what? 5 or ten instruments? But anyway you can add 25 instruments if you want.

In the same way, you can name another favorite item "Effects" or "Sequencers" and just add stuff to it.

I have Bitwig EDU and I want to sell it Exactly because of the (upgraded) browser and because of how silly copy-paste is working. I could never wrap my mind around it even though it seems fairly simple. I guess it's a subjective thing. viewtopic.php?t=585391

[Ou_Tis]

I can highly recommend you to get hands-on and extensively test Bitwig's instruments yourself. The sound, as a pure raw criterion, is fantastic and crystal clear, compared to similar instruments in other DAWs or third-party plugins. The short example videos you've linked lacks depth; perhaps you can get a better insight here:
But as mentioned, better try for yourself if you can find the time.

I already have. I was using Bitwig as my primary DAW for many years. And I've also already skimmed through that video and honestly it sounds like crap on my studio monitors. But your tastes are obviously different from mine (or your monitoring situation absolutely sucks)....