KVR Audio

PieBerger · Post by **PieBerger** » Tue Dec 19, 2023 12:14 pm

SLiC wrote: Tue Dec 19, 2023 11:29 am
JerGoertz wrote: Tue Dec 19, 2023 12:25 am
billcarroll wrote: Mon Dec 18, 2023 10:10 pm
enCiphered wrote: Sat Dec 16, 2023 8:19 pm Incredible how much freaking energy you all put into endlessly debating which DAW is superior instead of just embracing the one you are using most. I'm pretty sure what actually matters to you guys isn't highlighting the awesome features of your chosen DAW, but more like having the final say.
It's nuts... anyone who has that much time can't be a real musician or music creator. (Insert a picture of a monkey wearing a crown here)
I suspect you might be on to something here.
No, it's absolutely essential that we determine, once and for, which is best
This thread is very specific to 'Live 12 or Bitwig 5.1', as soon as Live 12.1 or Bitwig 5.2 comes out we will of course need a new thread...

I wouldn't expect anything less

StrangeSatellite · Post by **StrangeSatellite** » Tue Dec 19, 2023 3:31 pm

Yorrrrrr wrote: Sun Dec 03, 2023 1:13 am Ableton Live 12 Suite is the way to go. Recently I added Reason Rack Plugin to it and couldn't be happier with this combo. Bitwig offers some nice things (such as The Grid and the whole modulation thing), but as a complete package it's no Ableton, sorry. Not even close. And even less now with the upcoming 12.

As someone who has used and loved Ableton for 15 years, I can say without a doubt that you’ve used Bitwig 5.1 very little, if at all. Bitwig is easily on par with Ableton now, and the grid and modulation make it far better IMO. The only reason I’m still using Ableton at this point is because I prefer its cleaner UI, and I’m betting Bitwig 6 will fix that as well. Every other feature is eons beyond Ableton.

Yorrrrrr · Post by **Yorrrrrr** » Tue Dec 19, 2023 3:52 pm

The Grid and modulation are good as fun toys to tinker with, but that is not enough to edge Ableton in actual production work. YMMV though, and let’s just leave it at that. Enjoy Bitwig.

SLiC · Post by **SLiC** » Tue Dec 19, 2023 3:58 pm

StrangeSatellite wrote: Tue Dec 19, 2023 3:31 pm
Yorrrrrr wrote: Sun Dec 03, 2023 1:13 am Ableton Live 12 Suite is the way to go. Recently I added Reason Rack Plugin to it and couldn't be happier with this combo. Bitwig offers some nice things (such as The Grid and the whole modulation thing), but as a complete package it's no Ableton, sorry. Not even close. And even less now with the upcoming 12.
As someone who has used and loved Ableton for 15 years, I can say without a doubt that you’ve used Bitwig 5.1 very little, if at all. Bitwig is easily on par with Ableton now, and the grid and modulation make it far better IMO. The only reason I’m still using Ableton at this point is because I prefer its cleaner UI, and I’m betting Bitwig 6 will fix that as well. Every other feature is eons beyond Ableton.

Well, I have used Bigwig Since launch and was with Live from V4 (when they added Midi

)
Love 'em both, both have pro's and cons but Live has many features that Bitwig doesn't and visa versa- its just about what features are important to you- If integrated modulation is the most important feature to you in a DAW then Bitwig is probably the way to go...For what its worth I am mainly back with Live now as I just love the Push 3 integration and being able to use it Stand Alone (although probably only a matter of time before someone hacks it and runs Bitwig on it!)

pdxindy · Post by **pdxindy** » Tue Dec 19, 2023 4:02 pm

JerGoertz wrote: Tue Dec 19, 2023 12:25 am No, it's absolutely essential that we determine, once and for, which is best

I already determined that for myself... and when Bitwig added CLAP support and u-he did the same with PolyMod and support for Bitwig Note Expressions, that was like my dream feature that I never expected to be implemented. Now it's like the u-he synths are part of Bitwig and are way more capable than in any other DAW. That was the cherry on top.

perpetual3 · Post by **perpetual3** » Tue Dec 19, 2023 4:03 pm

FabFilter announces CLAP support with updated plugins.

PieBerger · Post by **PieBerger** » Tue Dec 19, 2023 4:25 pm

perpetual3 wrote: Tue Dec 19, 2023 4:03 pm FabFilter announces CLAP support with updated plugins.

Thanks, but wrong thread I think

vertibration · Post by **vertibration** » Tue Dec 19, 2023 4:36 pm

Yorrrrrr wrote: Tue Dec 19, 2023 3:52 pm The Grid and modulation are good as fun toys to tinker with, but that is not enough to edge Ableton in actual production work. YMMV though, and let’s just leave it at that. Enjoy Bitwig.

saying they are toys to tinker with is foolish man, just the same as someone who would say max4live is a toy to tinker with. These are all very powerful production tools.

PieBerger · Post by **PieBerger** » Tue Dec 19, 2023 4:39 pm

SLiC wrote: Tue Dec 19, 2023 3:58 pm
StrangeSatellite wrote: Tue Dec 19, 2023 3:31 pm
Yorrrrrr wrote: Sun Dec 03, 2023 1:13 am Ableton Live 12 Suite is the way to go. Recently I added Reason Rack Plugin to it and couldn't be happier with this combo. Bitwig offers some nice things (such as The Grid and the whole modulation thing), but as a complete package it's no Ableton, sorry. Not even close. And even less now with the upcoming 12.
As someone who has used and loved Ableton for 15 years, I can say without a doubt that you’ve used Bitwig 5.1 very little, if at all. Bitwig is easily on par with Ableton now, and the grid and modulation make it far better IMO. The only reason I’m still using Ableton at this point is because I prefer its cleaner UI, and I’m betting Bitwig 6 will fix that as well. Every other feature is eons beyond Ableton.
Well, I have used Bigwig Since launch and was with Live from V4 (when they added Midi )
Love 'em both, both have pro's and cons but Live has many features that Bitwig doesn't and visa versa- its just about what features are important to you- If integrated modulation is the most important feature to you in a DAW then Bitwig is probably the way to go...For what its worth I am mainly back with Live now as I just love the Push 3 integration and being able to use it Stand Alone (although probably only a matter of time before someone hacks it and runs Bitwig on it!)

How do you manage with the potato audio editing in Live? IIRC you're a S1 user too, do you do most of your audio work there? Push integration in Live is unparalleled, can't argue against that, which makes it greater for jamming/creating ideas etc, but once you're past that and need to do bread and butter editing work, Live just becomes painful to use

pdxindy · Post by **pdxindy** » Tue Dec 19, 2023 4:50 pm

perpetual3 wrote: Tue Dec 19, 2023 4:03 pm FabFilter announces CLAP support with updated plugins.

Oh, good news!

Yorrrrrr · Post by **Yorrrrrr** » Tue Dec 19, 2023 4:56 pm

vertibration wrote: Tue Dec 19, 2023 4:36 pm
Yorrrrrr wrote: Tue Dec 19, 2023 3:52 pm The Grid and modulation are good as fun toys to tinker with, but that is not enough to edge Ableton in actual production work. YMMV though, and let’s just leave it at that. Enjoy Bitwig.
saying they are toys to tinker with is foolish man, just the same as someone who would say max4live is a toy to tinker with. These are all very powerful production tools.

Good for you. I've got no use for that in my production work. Again, YMMV.

BTW, I don't use M4L either, but if I ever want toys to play, then I have a whole new world in M4L just for that.

pdxindy · Post by **pdxindy** » Tue Dec 19, 2023 5:17 pm

Yorrrrrr wrote: Tue Dec 19, 2023 3:52 pm The Grid and modulation are good as fun toys to tinker with, but that is not enough to edge Ableton in actual production work.

I disagree that the Grid and modulation system are only fun toys to tinker with. But setting them aside, various core capabilities of Bitwig for basic production work are more advanced than Live.

Ability to open multiple projects.
Plugin sandboxing
Better integration of Clip Launcher and Arranger
Hybrid tracks & Bounce in Place
Significantly better audio editing
User definable Key Commands
Better DAW preset system
More reliable PDC
CLAP plugin format support which has advantages over VST
Bitwig projects can be interchanged with Studio One and Reaper
Plus Bitwig is easily the most stable DAW I've used.

These are all useful for getting work done. Live has some advantages too, but I find Bitwig is overall better for core functionality. Of course each persons thoughts on the matter depends on subjective factors.

Yorrrrrr · Post by **Yorrrrrr** » Tue Dec 19, 2023 5:28 pm

In my experience (again, YMMV...) I haven't found an issue with any of that in Live. So, naturally I don't care about most. "Plugin sandboxing" would be nice to have (though Live never crashes on me because I use quality/reliable VST3 plugins all the time). However, "significantly better audio editing" intrigues me..could you expand a little on that? My audio editing work in Live has been bliss so far, I ignore what I'm supposed to miss

...

vertibration · Post by **vertibration** » Tue Dec 19, 2023 5:34 pm

Users of Live, and both Bitwig will appreciate both having quality editing. Live is quick, I used it since 2011. However, I use Bitwig now just because there are some important things that I like. Its sampler has built in granular which is sick, the grid, operators, and plugin sandboxing while also reading intel plugins on my silicon mac. Live is good too, its really comparing Porsche to Ferrari.

SLiC · Post by **SLiC** » Tue Dec 19, 2023 7:44 pm

Fabfilter (my most used VSTs) just updated to support CLAP...and the pendulum swings

Of Couse nothing to stop Live adopting CLAP...I wouldn't be surprised eventually.