Live 12 or Bitwig 5.1

[pdxindy]

Nope. You still have to have the third party MIDI tool on a separate track

Thanks for the clarification.

That was one of the pleasant surprises when switching to Bitwig. Between that and hybrid tracks I ended up with significantly less tracks for the same result.

[JerGoertz]

This thread is very specific to 'Live 12 or Bitwig 5.1', as soon as Live 12.1 or Bitwig 5.2 comes out we will of course need a new thread...

I know, right? It's all so confusing... Once we've got a handle on predicting the Arturia V Collection VIII and knowing which reverb is the best, life throws us a curveball and we're back to square one.

[SLiC]

This thread is very specific to 'Live 12 or Bitwig 5.1', as soon as Live 12.1 or Bitwig 5.2 comes out we will of course need a new thread...

I know, right? It's all so confusing... Once we've got a handle on predicting the Arturia V Collection VIII and knowing which reverb is the best, life throws us a curveball and we're back to square one.

Fortunately we are musicians, we have plenty of spare time

[xbitz]

Every so often I check in with Bitwig to see if dragging automation nodes still feels like moving your mouse cursor through quicksand -- that is, sloooow and sluggish and annoying as hell.

And every time, they still do. And I keep on using Live.

It was not my experience with BW... v4.3.1

I'm testing on 5.0.11 and they are as sluggish as ever. Literally just tried it out. It's a murky heavy soup, those nodes are swimming through.

Automation editing also lacks additional features that Ableton has, such as being able to select a range and then immediately shift that full range up or down (with points being created automatically at start and end of range). Stuff like that saves a ton of extra clicks and really speeds up automation envelope work.

OK. I had no idea that it could get worse with the update. Is that the same if you adjust the points in the Panel editor?

It hasn't gotten _worse_ with any recent update, it's just always been this bad / slow to move automation nodes around. Been this way since day one, version one.

Check out https://www.sonicacademy.com/courses/tr ... otoculture Protoculture's project on a Mac M1 16GB 14.1.1 for those who want to compare. The framerate is still within completely usable limits for me, it might hiccup a bit at the piano roll(1:50), but what really sucks in terms of framerate is the Logic, I don't even understand it.

[dellboy]

I can never get Bitwig to stay in sync,the loops always drift off when I leave it to play. No problems with Live,it stays in sync great. Maybe its something I do wrong in Bitwig,some sort of setting somewhere that needs activating.

[vertibration]

I can never get Bitwig to stay in sync,the loops always drift off when I leave it to play. No problems with Live,it stays in sync great. Maybe its something I do wrong in Bitwig,some sort of setting somewhere that needs activating.

its you I think

[apoclypse]

I can never get Bitwig to stay in sync,the loops always drift off when I leave it to play. No problems with Live,it stays in sync great. Maybe its something I do wrong in Bitwig,some sort of setting somewhere that needs activating.

its you I think

Bitwig has had sync issues for quite some time. This has come up before. I've gotten it to get out of sync plenty of times. Live pretty much always stays in sync and never deviates.

[audiouser720]

I would encourage everyone to watch this. And I sincerely hope this won’t turn into an anti Bitwig post. I tested it myself and most of these issues are still present in 5.1. But you will see that none of the DAWs are perfect. Live seems to be more accurate than Bitwig, but this may not be key to everyone, depending on workflow. To me basic, reliable DAW functions are crucial.

So yes, DAWs sound the same as long as you don’t do anything with them (automation, midi recording etc). This explains a lot about Logic and why I hated it so much back in the day. Anyway, watch all the 7 parts, it’s interesting, and as the guy says, test it yourselves (if you have the time and energy). Sorry for OT again, but it’s somewhat relevant:



EDIT: He starts mentioning Bitwig in Part 2

[vertibration]

I can never get Bitwig to stay in sync,the loops always drift off when I leave it to play. No problems with Live,it stays in sync great. Maybe its something I do wrong in Bitwig,some sort of setting somewhere that needs activating.

its you I think

Bitwig has had sync issues for quite some time. This has come up before. I've gotten it to get out of sync plenty of times. Live pretty much always stays in sync and never deviates.

Sync is determined by audio/elastic settings

[apoclypse]

I can never get Bitwig to stay in sync,the loops always drift off when I leave it to play. No problems with Live,it stays in sync great. Maybe its something I do wrong in Bitwig,some sort of setting somewhere that needs activating.

its you I think

Bitwig has had sync issues for quite some time. This has come up before. I've gotten it to get out of sync plenty of times. Live pretty much always stays in sync and never deviates.

Sync is determined by audio/elastic settings

Okay. How do you set audio/elastic settings on an instrument track? I've had Bitwig play clips back out of sync when it's doing too much or if I edit a setting it in a plugin it sometimes gets out of sync. I'm not just talking about audio clips.

[vertibration]

I can never get Bitwig to stay in sync,the loops always drift off when I leave it to play. No problems with Live,it stays in sync great. Maybe its something I do wrong in Bitwig,some sort of setting somewhere that needs activating.

its you I think

Bitwig has had sync issues for quite some time. This has come up before. I've gotten it to get out of sync plenty of times. Live pretty much always stays in sync and never deviates.

Sync is determined by audio/elastic settings

Okay. How do you set audio/elastic settings on an instrument track? I've had Bitwig play clips back out of sync when it's doing too much or if I edit a setting it in a plugin it sometimes gets out of sync. I'm not just talking about audio clips.

go to settings, and play with the default stretch mode settings. You can also modify stretch modes in the inspector. Regarding and instrument track, are you talking about midi?

[a9k1tp]

Bitwig is the solution to the workflow mess and bad habits that Ableton introduced and taught people.

You can't put a midi plugin and a synth on a same track on Ableton, it's really annoying. Ableton is full of workflow mess like this.

Easy. You do this once for Scaler (for example).

Add a MIDI track and put Scaler on it.
Add a MIDI empty track (or add your a VST you usually use with Scaler. I often use Riffer and Diva).
Route the empty (or loaded) MIDI track to the Scaler track.
Group them, Rename and save as a Clip. DONE!

Anytime you need SCALER just drag the Clip into your Arrangement. All set up for you. Put your favorite VST in the "empty" MIDI track.

Note: You can also drive your VST, in addition to MIDI coming in, with additional midi notes in the VST track.
For example, If I use the Riffer and Diva I may have chords in the Diva track as well and have it both going.

It's not messy at all and actually quite flexible if, for example, you use a random generator as a MIDI device, you can immediately record (print) the midi, while creating Take Lanes in the process, and go straight to MIDI comping.

I got your point but Bitwig also allows track routing. We have options in Bitwig.

- Tank fx is another thing which I feel every DAW should include in their devices.
- Bitwig also has the best modulator workflow. Whole DAW feels like I am working with Serum. It is very convenient, time saving and more customizable than Ableton at the same time.
- Audio clips are the best implemented in Bitwig.

Ableton is the least customizable DAW. Creating your own M4L device is a nightmare when compared to Bitwig's grid, which is more producer friendly.

Ableton have some great features too but the ratio is very low in comparison with Bitwig.

[a9k1tp]

Nope. You still have to have the third party MIDI tool on a separate track

Thanks for the clarification.

That was one of the pleasant surprises when switching to Bitwig. Between that and hybrid tracks I ended up with significantly less tracks for the same result.

Yes, less tracks while being more flexible and time saver at the same time. Bitwig also made me reduce my plugin collection.

Ableton users got hyped when they saw their new multiband distortion. I can do any multiband plugin in Bitwig and make any knobs dynamic with the help of modulators with ease.

[apoclypse]

I can never get Bitwig to stay in sync,the loops always drift off when I leave it to play. No problems with Live,it stays in sync great. Maybe its something I do wrong in Bitwig,some sort of setting somewhere that needs activating.

its you I think

Bitwig has had sync issues for quite some time. This has come up before. I've gotten it to get out of sync plenty of times. Live pretty much always stays in sync and never deviates.

Sync is determined by audio/elastic settings

Okay. How do you set audio/elastic settings on an instrument track? I've had Bitwig play clips back out of sync when it's doing too much or if I edit a setting it in a plugin it sometimes gets out of sync. I'm not just talking about audio clips.

go to settings, and play with the default stretch mode settings. You can also modify stretch modes in the inspector. Regarding and instrument track, are you talking about midi?

Yes. Midi. I was being facetious I know how to set elastic/stretch modes in Bitwig. I was pointing out that the sync issues are not just for audio. Clips in general (not just audio clips) sometimes get out of sync in Bitwig especially when the audio engine starts doing a lot.

[vertibration]

its you I think

Bitwig has had sync issues for quite some time. This has come up before. I've gotten it to get out of sync plenty of times. Live pretty much always stays in sync and never deviates.

Sync is determined by audio/elastic settings

Okay. How do you set audio/elastic settings on an instrument track? I've had Bitwig play clips back out of sync when it's doing too much or if I edit a setting it in a plugin it sometimes gets out of sync. I'm not just talking about audio clips.

go to settings, and play with the default stretch mode settings. You can also modify stretch modes in the inspector. Regarding and instrument track, are you talking about midi?

Yes. Midi. I was being facetious I know how to set elastic/stretch modes in Bitwig. I was pointing out that the sync issues are not just for audio. Clips in general (not just audio clips) sometimes get out of sync in Bitwig especially when the audio engine starts doing a lot.

Taken from the Bitwig site

Finally, both the MIDI Clock and Ableton Link options add a dedicated button to the Bitwig Studio window, between the transport and display sections of the menu/transport area (see The Window Menus/Transport Area). These buttons allow you to toggle the selected sync method on and off on the fly, and the Link button also reflects the number of other participants in the current Link session.

The MIDI Sync (OUT) section lets you set for each output path whether to:

Enable MIDI Clock (the time clock icon)

Enable MIDI Clock Start/Stop messages (the play triangle icon; available if MIDI clock is enabled)

Always send MIDI Clock, even when the transport is stopped (the lock icon; available if MIDI clock is enabled)

Enable SPP (MIDI song position pointers; available if MIDI clock is enabled)

Enable MTC (MIDI timecode)

And similar to the MIDI Input offset value, a MIDI Out Clock Offset can be set to fine tune each outgoing path separately. And a global setting for the MTC Rate can be set here as well.