Live 12 or Bitwig 5.1

[SLiC]

As shown in the video a few posts back, In 12 the MIDI-modifying devices don't need printing at all, they are 'in the piano roll' and can be altered in real time and also stepped back as required...no rack devices required. The raw PR editing is now a lot more functional (dare I say a bit more FL Studio influenced!).

It's a step in the right direction, but it's limited cause you cannot layer midi generators. It's a destructive process one at a time. What's nice is the realtime visual representation.

I still prefer Bitwig's Note FX cause you can layer and chain them and any of them can be edited or modulated at any time. What would be useful is a realtime visual representation. A built-in bounce to Midi would be a nice addition, but that works well enough with Bird's Midi Cap plugin that I'm fine until they add it.

There are pros and cons for both, I find that the scale aware generators provide more 'musical' results and I havent really come across anything that generates useable (not random) drum beats as well as Live 12 in Bitwig. I think it depends on if you want to compose something 'with intention' (maybe just a few embellishments or happy accidents) or really go for 'generative and evolving' (as I do on my modular, although often by accident!)

[pdxindy]

There are pros and cons for both, I find that the scale aware generators provide more 'musical' results and I havent really come across anything that generates useable (not random) drum beats as well as Live 12 in Bitwig. I think it depends on if you want to compose something 'with intention' (maybe just a few embellishments or happy accidents) or really go for 'generative and evolving' (as I do on my modular, although often by accident!)

I generally use Note FX with specific outcomes in mind. I'm not that into generative. I have an idea and I use the Note FX to make it happen.

It's easy in Bitwig to conform Note FX or any Chain of them to specific scales. It's easy in Bitwig to make a scale track and use Note Grids to conform all tracks to it. And the Scale track can change scales at any point in the timeline simply by changing the notes in the clip.

For example, here is one video from Polarity showing the concept.

[vertibration]

There are pros and cons for both, I find that the scale aware generators provide more 'musical' results and I havent really come across anything that generates useable (not random) drum beats as well as Live 12 in Bitwig. I think it depends on if you want to compose something 'with intention' (maybe just a few embellishments or happy accidents) or really go for 'generative and evolving' (as I do on my modular, although often by accident!)

I generally use Note FX with specific outcomes in mind. I'm not that into generative. I have an idea and I use the Note FX to make it happen.

It's easy in Bitwig to conform Note FX or any Chain of them to specific scales. It's easy in Bitwig to make a scale track and use Note Grids to conform all tracks to it. And the Scale track can change scales at any point in the timeline simply by changing the notes in the clip.

For example, here is one video from Polarity showing the concept.

I would love to see Bitwig do a global scale like FL Studio, and a snap to scale as well. Little things....not that big a deal

[SLiC]

There are pros and cons for both, I find that the scale aware generators provide more 'musical' results and I havent really come across anything that generates useable (not random) drum beats as well as Live 12 in Bitwig. I think it depends on if you want to compose something 'with intention' (maybe just a few embellishments or happy accidents) or really go for 'generative and evolving' (as I do on my modular, although often by accident!)

I generally use Note FX with specific outcomes in mind. I'm not that into generative. I have an idea and I use the Note FX to make it happen.

It's easy in Bitwig to conform Note FX or any Chain of them to specific scales. It's easy in Bitwig to make a scale track and use Note Grids to conform all tracks to it. And the Scale track can change scales at any point in the timeline simply by changing the notes in the clip.

For example, here is one video from Polarity showing the concept.

To be fair, that seems a lot more complicated than just picking the key and scale type from a drop down (for the project or per track) and just having it work with everything (even filters!) automaticity!

[liquidsound]

There is a difference.
For example, in the Ableton pianoroll (and actually the whole DAW) anyone can add a Device with M4L, and if you choose so, you can write your own and control the DAW and don’t have to wait the developers to implement some great ideas, even personal ideas or needs.
The choice is in the users (to a certain extent limited by M4L and accessibility to the code).

There was a thread battle long ago about MPE and the impossibility for Ableton to implement it due to the “Old Code” concept…

We have no idea what Ableton is doing behind doors and how they intend unfold the next wave of innovations.

It takes more time for a large company to initiate a new or greatly improved direction, but if the leadership is focused on the vision, stuff starts happening before common expectations.

To begin with, M4L gives some power to the willing users to implement tools, free or paid or for yourself, rather than wait for the developers under a continuous maintenance fee (just wait to see what’s going to happen to the Ableton pianoroll… ).

Ableton, for sure, got a wake-up call from Bitwig and… the giant is waking up

[xbitz]

I hope that after 6 betas, dr. Loomer will finally complete the Architect next year, and it will be under every DAW's Christmas tree as a miracle. https://www.loomer.co.uk/architect.html

[pdxindy]

To be fair, that seems a lot more complicated than just picking the key and scale type from a drop down (for the project or per track) and just having it work with everything (even filters!) automaticity!

A lot more complicated? Hardly. Especially if you have a template already set up as default.... and you can switch scales as often as you want through the project... you can have different scales or subsets of scales for different groups. You can constrain to just chords or any set of specific notes.

[enCiphered]

Yes, and this constant need and obsession having to load and buy M4L devices to do this and that is annoying. In Bitwig, everything is native.
Where's liquidsound to shut me down?!

[liquidsound]

Yes, and this constant need and obsession having to load and buy M4L devices to do this and that is annoying. In Bitwig, everything is native.
Where's liquidsound to shut me down?!

No way! You are too entertaining
I like when the minority has a desperate voice!

[enCiphered]

[liquidsound]

I still have Bitwig and TWO renewal codes

[enCiphered]

I still have Bitwig and TWO renewal codes

Really? Why two? That makes you look like a Bitwig fanatic

[SLiC]

In Bitwig, everything is native…

Even retrospective record

[liquidsound]

I still have Bitwig and TWO renewal codes

Really? Why two? That makes you look like a Bitwig fanatic

I do like Bitwig, don’t let my love for Ableton doubt that. It was a good deal and it was a way to support the developers.
The only thing I miss is CLAP

[enCiphered]

In Bitwig, everything is native…

Even retrospective record

Yes, its not on top of Bitwigs priority list unfortunately but they have said that they are considering adding it in a future version.