Sad state of Native Instruments

[digitalboytn]

Massive X had a bit of a troubled birth,but it sure sounds good

The frustrating thing is that NI DO make great products,but there was an unfortunate change of focus when those two clowns took over the company and it became a bit of a circus

Hopefully, the new management will fire most of the middle management and reinstate some of the coders who were let go in the earlier restructuring...

They need to reset their focus and reinstall the type of people who were responsible for developing the core products that were once the heart and soul of a great company

[Dr.Gunjah]

They certainly made great products in the past, I’m not sure they are still making great products. MassiveX was the last new product of note (and that release was a bit of a shambles) everything else minor updates and romplers.

I'd say they still make good stuff, just not exceptionally great stuff anymore. And while other devs kept raising the bar (especially in the GUI/Usability department) NI went along and tried to cram every new product into either kontakt or reaktor but didn't bother to keep those two state of the art.
All that while abandoning great products they either regard as not profitable enough anymore or simply lack the talent to make them competitive in todays market.

[noiseboyuk]

They certainly made great products in the past, I’m not sure they are still making great products. MassiveX was the last new product of note (and that release was a bit of a shambles) everything else minor updates and romplers.

This is the classic KVR synth, beats and FX bias. People here are only really interested in those things, to the point where it is the entire musical world seemingly. The casual dismissal of 'romplers" (ie literally every sample library ever made) tells its own tale.

While NI's orchestral series was a real disappointment, some of their other sample libraries have been stellar - Lores / Fables, the Session, World And Light series. Terrific sonically and programming too in the main.

I don't know what everyone is waiting for with new synths anyway. Nothing can have the same impact now that their old titans of Massive, FM, Absynth and Reaktor had. Massive X doesn't do it for me at all, but I know plenty like it. Live and let live.

For me the real source of frustration with NI lies their technical debt and in their patchy coding such as browsers. Komplete Kontrol is absolutely bloody awful, not fit for purpose. Even after a DECADE of development and designed from the ground up with no technical debt it is light years behind the old Kore browser of nearly 20 years ago. There's no excuse for that imo.

[SLiC]

They certainly made great products in the past, I’m not sure they are still making great products. MassiveX was the last new product of note (and that release was a bit of a shambles) everything else minor updates and romplers.

This is the classic KVR synth, beats and FX bias. People here are only really interested in those things, to the point where it is the entire musical world seemingly. The casual dismissal of 'romplers" (ie literally every sample library ever made) tells its own tale.

I have absolutely nothing against Romplers or sample libraries and I personally own Nexus, Omnisphere, Falcon and East West Opus (with a lot of sample libraries for the last two including the amazing 'forbidden planet' which shows what can be done in this format).

The problem with NI in my opinion is that everything is through 'Kontakt' and I just don't like using Kontakt that much, it feels so dated and honestly I think much of the NI stuff isn't that interesting or is at best derivative. I have all the Output stuff so it shows what can be done with time and effort, but the NI stuff just seems formulaic- 2 samples and a blend, I'm just a bit bored of it.

[Wrong Eq]

I think it's pretty hard to design interesting and new synthesizers from the ground up. There is already soooo much. Which is one of the reasons they milk the masses with their ridiculous play series instruments. To me NI is your typical neolibral, soulless profit focused corporation.

[chk071]

They certainly made great products in the past, I’m not sure they are still making great products. MassiveX was the last new product of note (and that release was a bit of a shambles) everything else minor updates and romplers.

I'd say they still make good stuff, just not exceptionally great stuff anymore.

Who still makes "exceptionally great stuff"? TBH, it's all more about business as usual now.

That said, it's simply wrong that NI didn't do anything good since Massive X anymore. They released a dozen of great sounding FX plugins since then.

I agree that it's the usual KVR bias towards certain companies.

[noiseboyuk]

I have absolutely nothing against Romplers or sample libraries and I personally own Nexus, Omnisphere, Falcon and East West Opus (with a lot of sample libraries for the last two including the amazing 'forbidden planet' which shows what can be done in this format).

The problem with NI in my opinion is that everything is through 'Kontakt' and I just don't like using Kontakt that much, it feels so dated and honestly I think much of the NI stuff isn't that interesting or is at best derivative. I have all the Output stuff so it shows what can be done with time and effort, but the NI stuff just seems formulaic- 2 samples and a blend, I'm just a bit bored of it.

Forbidden Planet is synth stuff, but as samples.

Kontakt dated? Kontakt is the host for sample libraries which are totally varied. It's the front end of these I work with. Unless I'm actually making my own samples - only very rarely - I couldn't care less what's under the hood.

Output - again, largely synth stuff - has a ton of stuff hosted in Kontakt.

Have you used any of their recent World or Session Guitar libraries? If so, what about them feels dated to you, exactly? How are they two samples and a blend? How are Lores or Fables derivative?

Sorry to pick on you, but these feel like the kind of lazy criticisms I see all the time on KVR. There's plenty to criticise with NI. Their Play series is much like you describe - fair enough, not very imaginative. But not all their stuff is like that by any means.

[SLiC]

I have absolutely nothing against Romplers or sample libraries and I personally own Nexus, Omnisphere, Falcon and East West Opus (with a lot of sample libraries for the last two including the amazing 'forbidden planet' which shows what can be done in this format).

The problem with NI in my opinion is that everything is through 'Kontakt' and I just don't like using Kontakt that much, it feels so dated and honestly I think much of the NI stuff isn't that interesting or is at best derivative. I have all the Output stuff so it shows what can be done with time and effort, but the NI stuff just seems formulaic- 2 samples and a blend, I'm just a bit bored of it.

Forbidden Planet is synth stuff, but as samples.

Kontakt dated? Kontakt is the host for sample libraries which are totally varied. It's the front end of these I work with. Unless I'm actually making my own samples - only very rarely - I couldn't care less what's under the hood.

Output - again, largely synth stuff - has a ton of stuff hosted in Kontakt.

Have you used any of their recent World or Session Guitar libraries? If so, what about them feels dated to you, exactly? How are they two samples and a blend? How are Lores or Fables derivative?

Sorry to pick on you, but these feel like the kind of lazy criticisms I see all the time on KVR. There's plenty to criticise with NI. Their Play series is much like you describe - fair enough, not very imaginative. But not all their stuff is like that by any means.

I have Ultimate 13 so have most libraires, personally I dislike all the guitar and bass stuff as I am primarily a guitarist (for 30 years) and it makes me feel like I wasted my time learning I also play drums a bit but when looking for sampled drums I use Superior Drummer 3 (maps better with my Roland ekit as well). I have UVI World Suite 2 which I found better both in terms of sound quality and content (I also prefer working in Falcon) for Orchestral and Pianos I use EW OPUS (Hollywood Orchestra is currently my go to, but I have Symphonic Orchestra, Choirs and Pianos as well). This is all a matter of taste of course, but I prefer it to the NI offerings. Soundpaint has also become a recent favourite of mine, especially for soundtrack/leftfield stuff.

NI is in my opinion quantity over quality in many cases, good value bit rarely best in class.

PS- Lores or Fables just remind me of the EW stuff I have had for years, StormDrum3, Silk, RA, Hollywood Fantasy etc.

[noiseboyuk]

PS- Lores or Fables just remind me of the EW stuff I have had for years, StormDrum3, Silk, RA, Hollywood Fantasy etc.

Wha.....????

I'll leave you to it.

[dellboy]

They certainly made great products in the past, I’m not sure they are still making great products. MassiveX was the last new product of note (and that release was a bit of a shambles) everything else minor updates and romplers.

I'd say they still make good stuff, just not exceptionally great stuff anymore.

Who still makes "exceptionally great stuff"? TBH, it's all more about business as usual now.

That said, it's simply wrong that NI didn't do anything good since Massive X anymore. They released a dozen of great sounding FX plugins since then.

I agree that it's the usual KVR bias towards certain companies.

Bias of one sort,either good or bad,is useful to a company. Indifference is what companies are afraid of. Indifference strikes the death knell of a company.

[nirm123]

They certainly made great products in the past, I’m not sure they are still making great products. MassiveX was the last new product of note (and that release was a bit of a shambles) everything else minor updates and romplers.

I'd say they still make good stuff, just not exceptionally great stuff anymore.

Who still makes "exceptionally great stuff"? TBH, it's all more about business as usual now.

That said, it's simply wrong that NI didn't do anything good since Massive X anymore. They released a dozen of great sounding FX plugins since then.

I agree that it's the usual KVR bias towards certain companies.

What dozen of effects were released post Massive X? Mod and crush packs were both released before Massive X.

[SLiC]

PS- Lores or Fables just remind me of the EW stuff I have had for years, StormDrum3, Silk, RA, Hollywood Fantasy etc.

Wha.....????

I'll leave you to it.

By the way, even if you love Lores or Fables they are pretty much 3rd party stuff designed to run in Kontakt (just like the Output stuff) I am not sure how much credit you can give NI for developing them, but these guys seem pretty good! https://www.evolutionseries.com/aboutus/

[chk071]

They certainly made great products in the past, I’m not sure they are still making great products. MassiveX was the last new product of note (and that release was a bit of a shambles) everything else minor updates and romplers.

I'd say they still make good stuff, just not exceptionally great stuff anymore.

Who still makes "exceptionally great stuff"? TBH, it's all more about business as usual now.

That said, it's simply wrong that NI didn't do anything good since Massive X anymore. They released a dozen of great sounding FX plugins since then.

I agree that it's the usual KVR bias towards certain companies.

What dozen of effects were released post Massive X? Mod and crush packs were both released before Massive X.

Hm, you're right. I was sure that they had been released after. Time flies...

[glokraw]

I think it's pretty hard to design interesting and new synthesizers from the ground up. There is already soooo much. Which is one of the reasons they milk the masses with their ridiculous play series instruments. To me NI is your typical neolibral, soulless profit focused corporation.

The 'Play' series is not primarily for synth experts. It's meant to provide quick and easy combinations of a collection of sounds, that almost anyone can use. There are hobbyists and creatives to whom those sounds are wonderful, who greatly enjoy the limited creativity possible. Then when someone has a larger Play Series collection, it's no longer such a limited a range. Some of those non-experts will go on to choose one of the Komplete packages. Simple marketing.
Cheers

[machinesworking]

One thing, All I want is NI to keep Kontakt and Reaktor and Maschine running and to get some sort of modern GUIs and updates for them. I don’t really need them coming up with new things per se, just modernize what they have. I don’t get the X modern synth is old etc. when at the same time people get excited for that latest version of the Minimoog. You include Traktor and Komplete Kontrol and that’s way too much to worry about to be constantly adding new things. So IMO let them introduce dozens of Play Romplers if it means that FM8 and Massive get needed updates.