Airwindows Hull2: Free Mac/Windows/Linux/Pi AU/VST/Rack

[machinesworking]

The vast majority continue to support VST2 while adding VST3. Some developers have chosen to stop supporting VST2, not because big bad Steinberg is forcing them to, but rather because it is redundant at this point and is just an unnecessary expenditure of time and money.

I know this is NI’s reason because they have been cutting costs and letting people go anywhere they can for the past 4 years.

That's just not true. Steinberg do not allow new plugins to be VST2 licensed. So unless you have a grandfathered in license you're not legally allowed to develop for VST2. Where it's grey area is upgraded versions of older products like Kontakt 7. NI decided not to risk it, and moving forward into Apple Silicon etc. are not supporting VST2, you can paint it how you want to, but that's how this is working. Plus NI have always deprecated older products and formats quicker than anyone besides Apple, nothing to do with recent acquisitions, unless they get bought every 3-5 years since 2000.

[machinesworking]

since everyone but Airwindows supports VST3.

Not in fact true, but I'm surprised at how short the list actually is. Giving devs credit if any one of their catalog is VST3, I found Black Rooster and Imaginando on my system are the only other clear laggards.

The most shocking one to me is the Akai MPC 2 software version, still VST2 and AU only. Both hosting and as a plugin. Hopefully they get this sorted soon.

[jamcat]

The vast majority continue to support VST2 while adding VST3. Some developers have chosen to stop supporting VST2, not because big bad Steinberg is forcing them to, but rather because it is redundant at this point and is just an unnecessary expenditure of time and money.

I know this is NI’s reason because they have been cutting costs and letting people go anywhere they can for the past 4 years.

That's just not true. Steinberg do not allow new plugins to be VST2 licensed. So unless you have a grandfathered in license you're not legally allowed to develop for VST2.

The license covers the developer, not the plugin. So a licensed VST2 developer can release VST2 versions of new plugins. And they do, all the time. Anyone who tells you differently is lying and has an agenda.

New developers cannot get a VST2 license if they’ve never had one because it is a dead, unsupported format and Steinberg has moved on.

[kidslow]

At this point I just assume anyone not supporting VST3 is either abandonware or grossly incompetent.

Bob Ross would be so proud of your broad brushstrokes. Chris is obviously anything but grossly incompetent. I prefer to show small developers more empathy and assume they suffer from a lack a cycles competing with abundance of priorities. I thought Chris did a fair job of stating his reasons. You may not agree with them, but they are valid.

[jamcat]

I was referring to the smattering of other developers. I know Chris’s reason is he has a political agenda.

[vurt]

At this point I just assume anyone not supporting VST3 is either abandonware or grossly incompetent.

Bob Ross

there's a girl on youtube, does quantum mechanics and multi dimensional theories, in the style of bob.

[jamcat]

there's a girl on youtube, does quantum mechanics and multi dimensional theories, in the style of bob.

Schrödinger says: link or it didn’t happen.

[vurt]

there's a girl on youtube, does quantum mechanics and multi dimensional theories, in the style of bob.

Schrödinger says: link or it didn’t happen.

[audiojunkie]

I'm usually very good about never saying things even close to 'boycott', and I'll continue to not respond with language like that. I just see it as similar to the situation with Unity (I'm coding in Godot on recent livestreams, having once been a Unity coder, for similar reasons).

Obviously the ‘non-boycott’ boycott isn’t catching on, since everyone but Airwindows supports VST3.

The specific thing that threw me was the period when accepting a VST3 license revoked your right to make VST2s. As an open source developer that is everything wrong with the proprietary world: that's breaking people's toys that they already bought so you can sell new ones.

That obviously didn’t go anywhere either, since everyone who made VST2 plugins still release VST2 versions. They’ve just added support for VST3 plugins.

That said, I am also honestly angry about one point that often goes unmentioned: it's no longer legally possible to be a new VST2 developer, even if your whole concept is something like 'I do this to make plugins for the original IBM PC and those who love them'. The fact that you cannot legally be a new VST2 developer bothers me. Nobody's trying to legally stop me from being a PPC Mac developer: XCode migrates away from old computers rapidly, but Apple's not trying to legally prevent me from using old Macs and compiling PPC-ready code today. If I want to be an antiques dealer and devote myself entirely to PPC plugins, I could do that and Apple would not try to legally stop me. If I want to be a VST2 dev and code for old PCs, Steinberg has taken multiple actions to kill any such idea in its cradle, and only the legacy folks survive, because it's already sketchy trying to revoke license to do such a thing, and they're on even shakier ground if they went after me for not migrating to pad their pockets (it is clearly not because it's a threatening-sized market)

Never mind CLAP, obviously that's an attack on their ownership of PC plugin platforms.

If they rescind the decision and allow new people to be licensed to code VST2s, legally, I will port everything to VST3 provided I can still target VST2 as I target the PPC Mac.

This is the most confusing bit. I’m trying to understand the logic here. So if my reading is correct, you’re saying you won’t develop for the current, active, relevant plugin format (something that would tangibly benefit lots of people) simply because Steinberg doesn’t give out new licenses to new developers for their discontinued, deprecated format that hasn’t been supported in over a decade?

There are no new developers clamoring to write plugins for a long dead format. You are white-knighting for a demographic that simply does not exist. Ending new VST2 licenses has nothing to do with you or the end users. It doesn’t actually affect YOU at all. It’s has nothing to do with protecting your self interests. You’re just standing athwart history yelling STOP. And like everyone who has tried that, you’re going to be run over.

I think the bottom line here is simply you have enough patrons who aren’t demanding VST3 versions for now. But in time that support will soften as VST2 disappears, and with it, your stance on VST3.

I doubt it. CLAP is more than sufficient. ...and you're just mad because you want to use the plugins too. You'll have to humble yourself and start using CLAP if you want to use the plugins.

[audiojunkie]

At this point I just assume anyone not supporting VST3 is either abandonware or grossly incompetent. Either way, they are avoided.

I'm doubling down. You just want to use the plugins and you can't. You're......

[jamcat]

I doubt it. CLAP is more than sufficient. ...and you're just mad because you want to use the plugins too. You'll have to humble yourself and start using CLAP if you want to use the plugins.

CLAP is the Linux of audio plugin formats. Almost no one supports it. I couldn't use it even if I was interested.

I could use Airwindows plugins either as VST2 or AU plugins in Studio One. But I made the decision several years back to cull all plugins that aren't VST3 to ensure future-proofing. It is the absolute best yardstick for gauging developer activity and commitment to their products, along with Apple Silicon support.

[audiojunkie]

I doubt it. CLAP is more than sufficient. ...and you're just mad because you want to use the plugins too. You'll have to humble yourself and start using CLAP if you want to use the plugins.

CLAP is the Linux of audio plugin formats…I couldn't use it even if I was interested.

Of course not! You use an Apple!

Hehehe! The Linux of audio plugin formats! That’s awesome!! You can’t troll a Linux user with a comment like that! To us, those words are a compliment.

If you want to insult CLAP to a Linux user, you’ve got to say something that would actually make them feel bad—for example, comparing CLAP to Apple’s planned obsolescence. Or you possibly to how much of a sucker Apple users are for falling for a subscription ecosystem. Another example would be to compare CLAP to a clever Apple user, who in reality doesn’t exist, but suffers from Dunning-Kruger effect. That would definitely be sure to rile someone, I’m sure! Another idea: Compare CLAP users to Apple users, who clearly suffer from Stockholm syndrome and love the parasite as it sucks their bank account dry.

There’s lots of ways to insult a Linux user, but comparing something to Linux just isn’t the way to go about it. CLAP is awesome!

[glokraw]

Considering the origens of CLAP, it's early adaptors, it's openness, it's midi capabilities,
ease of adaptation, and it's pricing, I think it's future is bright. Steimaha, or Yamaberg,
or whoever they actually are behind the decision-makers doors, also may have a bright future,
but with serious competition. Competition among toolmakers is good for tool users. I hope everyone has a prosperous 2024!

[glokraw]

If you want to insult CLAP to a Linux user, you’ve got to say something that would actually make them feel bad—for example,

...showing off the clunky software they are forced to use:

Kontakt-Syntronik.jpg

clunky-stuff.jpg

To quote Candace Owens, "Life's tough, get a helmet"

[t.o.t.s.]

edit: nevermind, no post here.