Airwindows Hull2: Free Mac/Windows/Linux/Pi AU/VST/Rack

[glokraw]

If Steinberg are willing to toss out an earlier version of their very own popular standard I can't see them adopting a 3rd party one.

Without their ego's, Steinberg could keep vst2 alive, as well as embrace CLAP, which apparently is quite easy, based on what some legendary coders have experienced. This would enhance their income stream, as compared to an attempted lockdown of their creative customers, being left with win vst3, mac, or bust. I suspect it would also enhance their public image. And if all their plugins worked in competing daws and were sold as singles or bundles, I would certainly demo some for consideration.

I have a relative who is a happy mac/cubase user. He is borderline genious, works hard, and is deservedly wealthy by my standards. The mac was needed for work, as the windows versions of needed software were poorly maintained, after being poorly coded. That costs time = costs money. Better software reduced the real yearly cost of an Apple hardware system, in his case.

[glokraw]

the fact that Reaper also runs on Linux has allowed me to repurpose an ancient laptop for live shows, with the laptop running a stripped-down version of Linux (which can still be kept up to date and secure, whenever I go online with it) and Reaper responsible for handling backing tracks, click tracks, count-in tracks, etc.

Very cool! There are probably many old computers in forum-member closets and storage that could be repurposed using an efficient linux. I have a friend who does that, and as people found out, a stream of working but older systems is always being given to him, and soon after, find a
better destiny than a recycle bin, and recipients can discover the joys of polite forum discussions . Or daws with Surge and AirWindows...
Cheers

[jamcat]

Steinberg maintained VST2 after launching VST3 longer than Microsoft maintains old versions of Windows.

[Agreed]

Is Microsoft now the beacon for how software companies should act? Precedent within MS enough to justify this or that?

[ampetrosillo]

No, it isn't (although we must concede that they must be doing at least *something* right if they remain a dominant player). But somebody compared VST2 to old versions of Windows (or DOS), implying that Microsoft moves on and expects you to move on too (with things that were built in top of their own software). Instead no, Microsoft bends over backwards to ensure that the software you bought in 2001 keeps working even today. Steinberg, on the other hand, expects developers to get on the VST3 wagon or users to move away from their VST2 plugins and use other ones if their old plugins haven't been converted to the new format.

[jamcat]

Critical banking and security infrastructure runs on Windows. If the amount of time Microsoft gives to migrate is long enough for critical industries, then certainly Steinberg gave more than enough time for everyone to migrate their audio plugins.

BTW, Windows 11 won't even install on the PC I built in 2016.

[ampetrosillo]

Critical banking and security infrastructure runs on Windows. If the amount of time Microsoft gives to migrate is long enough for critical industries, then certainly Steinberg gave more than enough time for everyone to migrate their audio plugins.

BTW, Windows 11 won't even install on the PC I built in 2016.

That's the point, they may stop supporting older Windows versions but they don't expect you to migrate from the applications you used to use. That's why enterprise likes Windows, if you have some critical software you depend on, you can update your OS version and you can more or less trust that your old software will continue to work.

[audiojunkie]

Critical banking and security infrastructure runs on Windows. If the amount of time Microsoft gives to migrate is long enough for critical industries, then certainly Steinberg gave more than enough time for everyone to migrate their audio plugins.

BTW, Windows 11 won't even install on the PC I built in 2016.

Critical banking and security infrastructure runs on Linux as well (probably better). What’s your point? No amount of time is enough if no one wants to migrate to the new system. It says even more if people would rather create their own system (CLAP), than to be forced to using something they don’t want to use.

Oh, and BTW, Windows 11 may not install on the PC you built in 2016, but the current MacOS won’t install on pre-M1 Apple hardware either. And yet, Linux would work on both the Windows and Apple hardware (old and new), along with just about every architecture available (including phones, watches, laptops, desktops, mainframes, supercomputers, mars rovers, video game systems dishwashers, cars, synths, etc. etc.) clear back to the intel 386 and before.

[jamcat]

No amount of time is enough if no one wants to migrate to the new system. It says even more if people would rather create their own system (CLAP), than to be forced to using something they don’t want to use.

That's quite the absolutist statement. And it's also quite false, since all but a very small handful of active developers have migrated to VST3, while only a small handful of developers have added support for CLAP. There are NO developers who support only CLAP, not even its creators. They all support VST3, too.

Oh, and BTW, Windows 11 may not install on the PC you built in 2016, but the current MacOS won’t install on pre-M1 Apple hardware either.

Another false statement. Apple Silicon launched in November of 2020, but the current macOS (Sonoma) runs on a variety of Macs going back to 2017.

https://support.apple.com/en-us/105113

And yet, Linux would work on both the Windows and Apple hardware (old and new), along with just about every architecture available (including phones, watches, laptops, desktops, mainframes, supercomputers, mars rovers, video game systems dishwashers, cars, synths, etc. etc.) clear back to the intel 386 and before.

And yet, of the 500+ plugins that I own, only 3 of them run on Linux, and less than 10 of them support CLAP. ALL of them support VST3.

[glokraw]

Vst3 came out when, 2008 or so? CLAP came out 14 years later, and will be successful based on the merits, and wide open for devs to contribute to. While one company is grasping at the past in a vain attempt to dominate the future. CLAP doen't need the vast majoriy of devs to succeed, just the really good ones. I've nothing against Steinberg, or vst2, 3, or even ?12? someday, and a lot of vst3's work fine for me, and a rising tide lifts the whole fleet. Steinberg may have an 8 billion dollar parent company in the corner, but unchecked ego can still sink their ship. There's more money to be made by expansion, than kontrol freakery. EDIT I have Komplete, and several IK MAX products that run well enough in linux, and have most of the U-he linux and discoDSP plugins, over 10,000 U-he sounds to toy with, add Surge with with another 1000, Vital for extra wavetable ideas to evolve, Yoshimi for multi-timbral layering, and inumerable effects should I need them. But your numbers mentioned, 500, 3, and 10 are meaningless when it comes to making music, and won't steer developers looking into the future.
Cheers

[jamcat]

Well, I'm making music right now, not waiting for The Great Pumpkin.

[glokraw]

As you should be, with skills and tools to exploit

[audiojunkie]

No amount of time is enough if no one wants to migrate to the new system. It says even more if people would rather create their own system (CLAP), than to be forced to using something they don’t want to use.

That's quite the absolutist statement. And it's also quite false, since all but a very small handful of active developers have migrated to VST3, while only a small handful of developers have added support for CLAP. There are NO developers who support only CLAP, not even its creators. They all support VST3, too.

Oh, and BTW, Windows 11 may not install on the PC you built in 2016, but the current MacOS won’t install on pre-M1 Apple hardware either.

Another false statement. Apple Silicon launched in November of 2020, but the current macOS (Sonoma) runs on a variety of Macs going back to 2017.

https://support.apple.com/en-us/105113

And yet, Linux would work on both the Windows and Apple hardware (old and new), along with just about every architecture available (including phones, watches, laptops, desktops, mainframes, supercomputers, mars rovers, video game systems dishwashers, cars, synths, etc. etc.) clear back to the intel 386 and before.

And yet, of the 500+ plugins that I own, only 3 of them run on Linux, and less than 10 of them support CLAP. ALL of them support VST3.

I stand by my absolutist statement. Until CLAP, there was no other viable option. Steinberg essentially had everyone by the legal cajones—forced to adapt. Give CLAP the same amount of time that developers had to switch from vst2 to vst3, and we’ll see how well VST3 and CLAP are doing then. Until such time passes neither of us can definitively state that the other is wrong, so there is no point is either of us discussing this part further.

As for the Macs, I confess that for a few select intel-based systems there are still a few months of “limited” Sonoma support. But their MacOS coverage is on life support, and then the “only” recourse for up-to-date OS support will be Linux. So, I’m way more right than I am wrong.

https://www.howtogeek.com/897055/will-m ... sktop-mac/

And as for your 500+ Apple-based plugins, I’s be willing to bet that most of them have Windows counterparts that would run just fine on Linux, so again, Linux is doing just fine. And when your beautiful M2 based device loses its support, you’ll essentially have three choices: join us as a Linux user, sell or give away your system, or continue enjoying your increasingly unprotected and irrelevant doorstop.

[kidslow]

I guess this ^^^ guy has never heard of an airgapped system. In their current iteration, Macs are pretty darn secure, especially without an Internet connection. Likely more secure than Linux, which has a lot more attack surface and no walled garden of protection.

I've been a Linux user for 30+ years and a Mac user for 25+ and there is no comparison when it comes to UX. Apple wins that argument all day, every day. But it's not always about UX or UI ... given we're discussing this in an airwindows thread. lol

[audiojunkie]

I guess this ^^^ guy has never heard of an airgapped system. In their current iteration, Macs are pretty darn secure, especially without an Internet connection. Likely more secure than Linux, which has a lot more attack surface and no walled garden of protection.

I've been a Linux user for 30+ years and a Mac user for 25+ and there is no comparison when it comes to UX. Apple wins that argument all day, every day. But it's not always about UX or UI ... given we're discussing this in an airwindows thread. lol

Nope, never heard of that! It’s amazing what 35 years in the IT business doesn’t teach you! I feel so foolish right now!

Edit: I debated going further, but I decided to take the low road on your braggadocio— Linux didn’t even get a first release until the end of 1991, so your claim of working on Linux for 30+ years is full of it. At that time, it was a curiosity at best, and hardly usable. I figured I’d mention it since you obviously didn’t know…