VPS Avenger 2.4 [RELEASED - FAQ in OP]

[DCrown]

how do you think its 750 users? I calculate a totally different numbers. Do you know more than we?

Some time ago I read Xpand2! by Air was sold about 22 Mio times. I know Xpand2 is older than Avenger, so I thing Avenger has been sold at least 1/3 times of Xpand2.
So aprox 750 are mpe users according to your 0.01%.

[MirkoVanHauten]

You unironically think Avenger has been sold 7Mio times? With all the bugs & cp trouble it had/has, the botched initial release, the niche product it is? I'd be surprised if it sold like 7k times (and I think that's a good number and already enough to finance the vengeance studio ).

[DCrown]

You unironically think Avenger has been sold 7Mio times? With all the bugs & cp trouble it had/has, the botched initial release, the niche product it is? I'd be surprised if it sold like 7k times (and I think that's a good number and already enough to finance the vengeance studio ).

You unironically think that Avenger is not one of the very best softsynths ever? Only the number of posts and replies on Avenger threads here should give you a small view on its huge popularity.
It's not a niche product at all, but a synth that offers endless possibilities to create own sounds for any kind of genre.

[gaggle of hermits]

how do you think its 750 users? I calculate a totally different numbers. Do you know more than we?

Some time ago I read Xpand2! by Air was sold about 22 Mio times. I know Xpand2 is older than Avenger, so I thing Avenger has been sold at least 1/3 times of Xpand2.
So aprox 750 are mpe users according to your 0.01%.

xpand2! was part of pro tools for years, including the free First version when avid tried to go consumer/prosumer before doing another u-turn with new management. and it sold for a dollar when air went to inmusic. I wouldn't be surprised if it's racked up 20 million licences but it has about zero relevance to how many copies avenger might have sold.

[tapekiller]

You unironically think Avenger has been sold 7Mio times? With all the bugs & cp trouble it had/has, the botched initial release, the niche product it is? I'd be surprised if it sold like 7k times (and I think that's a good number and already enough to finance the vengeance studio ).

You unironically think that Avenger is not one of the very best softsynths ever? Only the number of posts and replies on Avenger threads here should give you a small view on its huge popularity.
It's not a niche product at all, but a synth that offers endless possibilities to create own sounds for any kind of genre.

That's shifting the goalpost. Yeah the synth itself is objectively pretty good but let's be honest, do you actually think the number of pages in this forum is a good indication of the synth's popularity?

The old thread is full of the same dozens users arguing back and forth for 900 pages of unorganized mess, with the occasional somebody that has an issue or complaint which will inevitably lead to the same answers, pushing any interesting discussion that can be had further back into a random three digit page.
There is no actual platform to have structured and organized discussions about this product, any peabrain can set up a Discourse forum or even a Discord server, but I guess KVR and facebook (lmao) are the appropriate platforms since there seems to be a significant overlap between the synth and these platforms' target demographic.

Anyway, if we are to trust KVR's system, at the time of typing this it ranks Avenger (2) at 42nd place in the last 3 month's average, considering the peak in december and the fact that avenger 2 is relatively recent. You can draw your own conclusions.

[Jac459]

Another reference could be Equipboard, where Avenger is number 24 and praised by artists like David Guetta, Armin Van Buuren or Nicky Romero.
Considering the size of the company it is quite impressive.

On another note, I am having a blast with avenger 2 now, it is slowly becoming my favourite VST, over Current or even serum or phase plant. Big thanks to VPS.

[epiphaneia]

Sorry if that´s been brought up before, but I find the solo/mute behavior of the drums a bit off:

When I have a patch consisting of several layers, among them one drum layer, and then want to edit drums, I usually first mute all layers except for the drums.

When I now solo a single drumsound and un-solo it after editing, all other layers also become un-muted.

It is obviously designed to work like that, but wouldn´t it make more sense if solo/mute of drums only worked "within" drums? In my case, when I un-solo a single drumsound, I would expect to hear all drums again but the other layers to remain muted.

@msvs how do you see this one?

[Gam456]

Another reference could be Equipboard, where Avenger is number 24 and praised by artists like David Guetta, Armin Van Buuren or Nicky Romero.
Considering the size of the company it is quite impressive.

Spectrasonics isn't a big dev like Native, Arturia, but look after the list of users
The list is insane

[m-ac]

Another reference could be Equipboard, where Avenger is number 24 and praised by artists like David Guetta, Armin Van Buuren or Nicky Romero.
Considering the size of the company it is quite impressive.

By that logic, 3xOsc, KV331, Styrus, and ANA, are all better synths than Avenger?!

[Jac459]

Another reference could be Equipboard, where Avenger is number 24 and praised by artists like David Guetta, Armin Van Buuren or Nicky Romero.
Considering the size of the company it is quite impressive.

Spectrasonics isn't a big dev like Native, Arturia, but look after the list of users
The list is insane

Spectrasonic is also immensely successful, it is an hard fact of life. No question about it.

[Jac459]

Another reference could be Equipboard, where Avenger is number 24 and praised by artists like David Guetta, Armin Van Buuren or Nicky Romero.
Considering the size of the company it is quite impressive.

By that logic, 3xOsc, KV331, Styrus, and ANA, are all better synths than Avenger?!

Well my point was more to say that we can take many references...

But globally I disagree on what was stated earlier about KVR not being a good reference of the success of different brands. I am not saying it is a perfect mirror of reality and it certainly does colour the reality, but overall it shouldn't be very off.

It is a forum based on dozens (hundreds?) of people spending a large part of their time browsing the offers in music creation. There is a kind of collective intelligence in that.
(I know KVR and intelligences in the same sentence is unusual he he).

But frankly, in my various exploration of the market I am interested in, I never discovered an hidden gem that wasn't mentioned at one point of time. On the contrary, I discovered some gems (like ds thorn) thanks to KVR.

[tapekiller]

Another reference could be Equipboard, where Avenger is number 24 and praised by artists like David Guetta, Armin Van Buuren or Nicky Romero.
Considering the size of the company it is quite impressive.

On another note, I am having a blast with avenger 2 now, it is slowly becoming my favourite VST, over Current or even serum or phase plant. Big thanks to VPS.

It's 24th place in overall score ranking, not popularity.
David Guetta's testimonial is a cookie cutter PR statement that doesn't even have any source, and the Nicky Romero one is literally few seconds in a video where he shows a collab where the other guy he collaborated with (Mike) placed an Avenger instance.
The size of the company doesn't really matter, it's the marketing strategies and the countless other facets of product growth that matter. A well advertised product with an active platform where its users create a community is much more influential, don't you think?
I'm sure you are aware of how even cesspools like discord servers can have much more organized conversations in text channels alone (without taking into account voice chats, file sharing, streaming).

Rene programmed a fantastic synth that I still use and it's one of the ones I use more often because it's just that good, but many here (not necessarily you) act like there is nothing else out here to the point where it almost sounds like cognitive dissonance mixed with desperate search of financial choices validation. And the fact these two threads are often treated like review pages.

As a sidenote, I've been using Current a lot lately cause I had different needs (like chaining fm while also having these oscillators on, which for some strange reason is not allowed in avenger by design) and I could have used some restrictions (which, imo, stimulate creativity because you work around said limitations). Ben sent me the upcoming version of Current that solves an issue I had, all in less than a day.

[Razzia]

As a sidenote, I've been using Current a lot lately cause I had different needs (like chaining fm while also having these oscillators on, which for some strange reason is not allowed in avenger by design) and I could have used some restrictions (which, imo, stimulate creativity because you work around said limitations). Ben sent me the upcoming version of Current that solves an issue I had, all in less than a day.

Seconded your sentiments about Current. I still think out of all the big workhorse type synth plugins Avenger has the best mix of being super capable and fairly frictionless but I just find Current a joy to use. Those guys at Minimal can really design a UI. Their sub osc module is brilliant. I can just sit and design drums on that thing for hours.

[Jac459]

Another reference could be Equipboard, where Avenger is number 24 and praised by artists like David Guetta, Armin Van Buuren or Nicky Romero.
Considering the size of the company it is quite impressive.

On another note, I am having a blast with avenger 2 now, it is slowly becoming my favourite VST, over Current or even serum or phase plant. Big thanks to VPS.

It's 24th place in overall score ranking, not popularity.
David Guetta's testimonial is a cookie cutter PR statement that doesn't even have any source, and the Nicky Romero one is literally few seconds in a video where he shows a collab where the other guy he collaborated with (Mike) placed an Avenger instance.
The size of the company doesn't really matter, it's the marketing strategies and the countless other facets of product growth that matter. A well advertised product with an active platform where its users create a community is much more influential, don't you think?
I'm sure you are aware of how even cesspools like discord servers can have much more organized conversations in text channels alone (without taking into account voice chats, file sharing, streaming).

Rene programmed a fantastic synth that I still use and it's one of the ones I use more often because it's just that good, but many here (not necessarily you) act like there is nothing else out here to the point where it almost sounds like cognitive dissonance mixed with desperate search of financial choices validation. And the fact these two threads are often treated like review pages.

As a sidenote, I've been using Current a lot lately cause I had different needs (like chaining fm while also having these oscillators on, which for some strange reason is not allowed in avenger by design) and I could have used some restrictions (which, imo, stimulate creativity because you work around said limitations). Ben sent me the upcoming version of Current that solves an issue I had, all in less than a day.

Well my post may be a bit over-interpreted. I just googled and took the first site mentioning Avenger. My point was to say there are many other references than KVR proving Avenger is rather successful. I was not saying that Equipboard is the ultimate reference.

For financial validation, I think it is a really valid point in many many geek discussions. iOS vs Android, Mac vs PC, Garmin vs Fitbit, Tesla vs ..... The people the most lively about one tech vs another are often just insecure and try to be sure they bought the right thing.
That being said, I think KVR is a place where it happens less. Reason being we are essentially all GAS-certified and we are already owning all synths... I was having a debate with somebody on Serum vs Phase Plant, both of us were having both synths... So not really financial validation...

Anyway, Avenger is really an awesome synth. Not the only one, but there is no way I would put it outside my top 5 and maybe even my top 3. It is just too good and too fun. And these v2 is even increasing this fun.
Current is fun also (and I own it ) but most of the time I end-up playing with Avenger 2 because I just prefer it... By the way Current has a display bug on large screen with Bitwig which is quite annoying. Validated by their support but not fixed until now... When it will be fixed I may use it more. Another issue I see in Current is the headache with the presets, I don't exactly know which one I will be able to keep after my yearly subscription end... So overall it is a very good experience, but not a perfect experience. Perfect experience to me is only Phase Plant...

[tapekiller]

Another reference could be Equipboard, where Avenger is number 24 and praised by artists like David Guetta, Armin Van Buuren or Nicky Romero.
Considering the size of the company it is quite impressive.

On another note, I am having a blast with avenger 2 now, it is slowly becoming my favourite VST, over Current or even serum or phase plant. Big thanks to VPS.

It's 24th place in overall score ranking, not popularity.
David Guetta's testimonial is a cookie cutter PR statement that doesn't even have any source, and the Nicky Romero one is literally few seconds in a video where he shows a collab where the other guy he collaborated with (Mike) placed an Avenger instance.
The size of the company doesn't really matter, it's the marketing strategies and the countless other facets of product growth that matter. A well advertised product with an active platform where its users create a community is much more influential, don't you think?
I'm sure you are aware of how even cesspools like discord servers can have much more organized conversations in text channels alone (without taking into account voice chats, file sharing, streaming).

Rene programmed a fantastic synth that I still use and it's one of the ones I use more often because it's just that good, but many here (not necessarily you) act like there is nothing else out here to the point where it almost sounds like cognitive dissonance mixed with desperate search of financial choices validation. And the fact these two threads are often treated like review pages.

As a sidenote, I've been using Current a lot lately cause I had different needs (like chaining fm while also having these oscillators on, which for some strange reason is not allowed in avenger by design) and I could have used some restrictions (which, imo, stimulate creativity because you work around said limitations). Ben sent me the upcoming version of Current that solves an issue I had, all in less than a day.

Well my post may be a bit over-interpreted. I just googled and took the first site mentioning Avenger. My point was to say there are many other references than KVR proving Avenger is rather successful. I was not saying that Equipboard is the ultimate reference.

For financial validation, I think it is a really valid point in many many geek discussions. iOS vs Android, Mac vs PC, Garmin vs Fitbit, Tesla vs ..... The people the most lively about one tech vs another are often just insecure and try to be sure they bought the right thing.
That being said, I think KVR is a place where it happens less. Reason being we are essentially all GAS-certified and we are already owning all synths... I was having a debate with somebody on Serum vs Phase Plant, both of us were having both synths... So not really financial validation...

Anyway, Avenger is really an awesome synth. Not the only one, but there is no way I would put it outside my top 5 and maybe even my top 3. It is just too good and too fun. And these v2 is even increasing this fun.
Current is fun also (and I own it ) but most of the time I end-up playing with Avenger 2 because I just prefer it... By the way Current has a display bug on large screen with Bitwig which is quite annoying. Validated by their support but not fixed until now... When it will be fixed I may use it more. Another issue I see in Current is the headache with the presets, I don't exactly know which one I will be able to keep after my yearly subscription end... So overall it is a very good experience, but not a perfect experience. Perfect experience to me is only Phase Plant...

I get where you're coming from. In any case I still wish there was an actual forum dedicated to this synth instead of clumping literally everything in one single thread.

Small OT: As far as presets go I don't really use them, I always make my own patches from scratch and at best I recall my templates, but I think I understand what you mean. Good thing about their rent to own plan is that it's actually a "everything" subscription but you get back your money as store credit to spend in perpetual licenses, and in case you don't buy them the plugins still work to allow retrocompatibility.
As far as graphical issues are concerned, I believe 1.1.3 will most likely fix your problems as the current build doesn't allow OpenGL yet. But yeah, might be better to discuss this stuff elsewhere.