Ableton 12 - Generative MIDI, Multiband Distortion and more

[SLiC]

The way freeze and flatten in one command ('bounce-in-place") was implemented in 12, is fine by me. No need to have MIDI and audio in the same track.

I'm a little confused about this. I must be missing something but isn't the point about freeze and flatten is that it freezes the midi and created an audio file as well? You cannot unfreeze with this option so you lose the midi track..? What's the point otherwise?

What I meant is that in Live 12 you can freeze and flatten an entire track (in a single step), but you still cannot freeze and flatten a piece of MIDI so you end up having both audio and MIDI clips in the same track ("hybrid track").

Its just duplicate fist, freeze, deactivated midi track (pressing 0), not ideal but takes about 5 seconds and I don't have to do it very often...modern PCs keep up with me!

[Yorrrrrr]

deactivated midi track (pressing 0)

Can you deactivate (0) a track? Or did you mean clips?

[Ou_Tis]

Is the gui latency lag bug with certain plugins still happening in Live 12 beta? (Where the gui doesn't adjust for plugin latency, so the playhead rushes far ahead of the audio....)

[SLiC]

Is the gui latency lag bug with certain plugins still happening in Live 12 beta? (Where the gui doesn't adjust for plugin latency, so the playhead rushes far ahead of the audio....)

I guess you would have to say what plugin caused this if its just certain plugins for anyone to check...I have never seen the issue myself.

[SLiC]

deactivated midi track (pressing 0)

Can you deactivate (0) a track? Or did you mean clips?

Yes sorry- clip (in either session or arranger), but freeze track will stop the CPU use on any entire track if that's what you want, and then let you unfreeze to edit the midi, so just duplicate then freeze one and bounce the other. Like I said, not something I do very often at all so never been much of an issue for me personally....but they have 'unfreeze' so I don't know why they don't add 'unflatten' which would solve the need to duplicate I guess.

[metaside]

but they have 'unfreeze' so I don't know why they don't add 'unflatten' which would solve the need to duplicate I guess.

I would guess it's because IIRC you can change audio tracks (warp, effects, microediting, put different audo clips on the same track or whatever) but not frozen tracks, so unfreezing something is comparatively easy.

[inkwarp]

Its just duplicate fist, freeze, deactivated midi track (pressing 0), not ideal but takes about 5 seconds and I don't have to do it very often...modern PCs keep up with me!

Yes, it's a pain in the arse. I don't see why they've added the freeze and flatten thing. It's still needs a workaround.

[nanostream]

I’ve finally tried Performer and I don’t know why I’ve waited so long. This is brilliant. It blows plugins like Transit out of the water, it’s not even close. Everything is so well integrated, and just automating a knob with a simple sine wave while using different curves on discrete modulation targets adds so much.

Also, I love the new LFO, the Shape option in particular. Bending curves is always fun. I hope someone forks it and makes the new parameters available for automation. The Shaper device got some love as well, very nice to see.

[ozinga]

Is the gui latency lag bug with certain plugins still happening in Live 12 beta? (Where the gui doesn't adjust for plugin latency, so the playhead rushes far ahead of the audio....)

AFAIK It is still there.
From
https://help.ableton.com/hc/en-us/artic ... sation-FAQ

"Which elements in Live are not subject to delay compensation?
Graphics Elements are not compensated
Level meters, video playback and other graphic elements might be displayed slightly ahead of time with respect to the audio."

[Ou_Tis]

Is the gui latency lag bug with certain plugins still happening in Live 12 beta? (Where the gui doesn't adjust for plugin latency, so the playhead rushes far ahead of the audio....)

AFAIK It is still there.
From
https://help.ableton.com/hc/en-us/artic ... sation-FAQ

"Which elements in Live are not subject to delay compensation?
Graphics Elements are not compensated
Level meters, video playback and other graphic elements might be displayed slightly ahead of time with respect to the audio."

Wow. So, contrary to what I read on Reddit or somewhere, it's not a bug that only happens with certain plugins. This seems like a major, major negative for Ableton relative to Bitwig. The playhead runs so far ahead of the audio that it's completely useless for trying to figure out where to draw or edit the automation. Am I going to have to start using midi controllers to input all the automation? *And* all the fine tuning? Absurd. *And* you can't deactivate individual plugins, so they continue contributing latency unless you also freeze the track they're on (which takes an absurdly long time relative to Bitwig).

[SLiC]

Is the gui latency lag bug with certain plugins still happening in Live 12 beta? (Where the gui doesn't adjust for plugin latency, so the playhead rushes far ahead of the audio....)

AFAIK It is still there.
From
https://help.ableton.com/hc/en-us/artic ... sation-FAQ

"Which elements in Live are not subject to delay compensation?
Graphics Elements are not compensated
Level meters, video playback and other graphic elements might be displayed slightly ahead of time with respect to the audio."

Wow. So, contrary to what I read on Reddit or somewhere, it's not a bug that only happens with certain plugins. This seems like a major, major negative for Ableton relative to Bitwig. The playhead runs so far ahead of the audio that it's completely useless for trying to figure out where to draw or edit the automation. Am I going to have to start using midi controllers to input all the automation? *And* all the fine tuning? Absurd. *And* you can't deactivate individual plugins, so they continue contributing latency unless you also freeze the track they're on (which takes an absurdly long time relative to Bitwig).

''If the playhead runs so far ahead of the audio that it's completely useless for trying to figure out where to draw or edit the automation''. I just spent 10 minutes filling a track with devices with a lot of latency in Live, and if I am honest I couldn't really see any 'run ahead', maybe it was just slightly ahead (quite hard to tell), I will try the same thing in Bitwig out of interest. Its never something I have noticed in either myself, but never looked for it either! Bitwig doesn't have native video playback so can't test that one!

Personally if I am doing automation I am listening rather than looking at a play head, just listen and automate with a controller, never used the play head.

[Ou_Tis]

Is the gui latency lag bug with certain plugins still happening in Live 12 beta? (Where the gui doesn't adjust for plugin latency, so the playhead rushes far ahead of the audio....)

AFAIK It is still there.
From
https://help.ableton.com/hc/en-us/artic ... sation-FAQ

"Which elements in Live are not subject to delay compensation?
Graphics Elements are not compensated
Level meters, video playback and other graphic elements might be displayed slightly ahead of time with respect to the audio."

Wow. So, contrary to what I read on Reddit or somewhere, it's not a bug that only happens with certain plugins. This seems like a major, major negative for Ableton relative to Bitwig. The playhead runs so far ahead of the audio that it's completely useless for trying to figure out where to draw or edit the automation. Am I going to have to start using midi controllers to input all the automation? *And* all the fine tuning? Absurd. *And* you can't deactivate individual plugins, so they continue contributing latency unless you also freeze the track they're on (which takes an absurdly long time relative to Bitwig).

''If the playhead runs so far ahead of the audio that it's completely useless for trying to figure out where to draw or edit the automation''. I just spent 10 minutes filling a track with devices with a lot of latency in Live, and if I am honest I couldn't really see any 'run ahead', maybe it was just slightly ahead (quite hard to tell), I will try the same thing in Bitwig out of interest. Its never something I have noticed in either myself, but never looked for it either! Bitwig doesn't have native video playback so can't test that one!

Personally if I am doing automation I am listening rather than looking at a play head, just listen and automate with a controller, never used the play head.

So instead of fine-tuning the automation by editing the recorded automation you just keep drawing in new takes with your controller until you're satisfied? Granted that's how automation was done in ancient times but you're almost certainly going to get better quality by editing.

Apparently latency is independent of computer and interface specs, though some drivers introduce more latency, and lower buffer size of course decreases it. I'll have to experiment with this some more.

[nanostream]

The Shaper device got some love as well, very nice to see.

The new Manual mode is seriously awesome. You can create an exponential curve and automate it with a linear one. Or create a stepped sequence and automate that with an exponential curve, changing it ever so slightly as the arrangement goes on etc.

Together with Performer it’s mindblowing how easy it is to create and arrange complex modulation now. Push integration is mostly seamless as well. I’ll definitely have to rethink large parts of my workflow, it’s that good.

[SLiC]

So instead of fine-tuning the automation by editing the recorded automation you just keep drawing in new takes with your controller until you're satisfied? Granted that's how automation was done in ancient times but you're almost certainly going to get better quality by editing.

Apparently latency is independent of computer and interface specs, though some drivers introduce more latency, and lower buffer size of course decreases it. I'll have to experiment with this some more.

I normally fine tune after I have recorded real time as that gives me real time markers, maybe I will use short scrubs after that to tweak (and it doesn't seem to drift then). All I can say is I never actually noticed any issue personally.

I also use Lives 'shapes' to draw stuff in without needing to use to , riser for 1 bar etc, a good selection of snappable automation shapes are something I do find essential.

[pdxindy]

So instead of fine-tuning the automation by editing the recorded automation you just keep drawing in new takes with your controller until you're satisfied? Granted that's how automation was done in ancient times but you're almost certainly going to get better quality by editing.

Define better quality.

More precise? I would agree. More flowing and in a musical groove? Then realtime 'playing' works better for me.