Motorola DSP563xx Emulator (BETA) (Access Virus, Nord Lead, Waldorf MW...)

[chk071]

under the dmca in the US at least, reverse engineering for the purpose of interoperability (ie getting something to run on a machine you have when the vendor doesn't support it) is fine.

And how does that apply to the Motorola DSP chips? They were never meant to be emulated and run on home computer hardware.

[gaggle of hermits]

the playstation bios was never meant to run on a pc.

also DSPs "never meant to be emulated" is bollox as several vendors of debug products did exactly that, with Motorola's expressed approval. that's how embedded software development often works. if you actually did some research for once instead of pumping out random fact-free opinions all day every day you might have discovered that.

[chk071]

if you actually did some research for once instead of pumping out random fact-free opinions all day every day you might have discovered that.

Fact free like the assumption that this would stand any legal validation? I merely said that this is at least grey zone. You seem to be very convinced that everything they did and do is perfectly legal.

At the very least, the application of the device firmware is total grey zone. Yes, even when you own the device.

[SLiC]

All of these argument were had in great detail (a dozen or so pages) earlier in the thread...
Conclusion then was it's a grey zone...

[gaggle of hermits]

Fact free like the assumption that this would stand any legal validation? I merely said that this is at least grey zone. You seem to be very convinced that everything they did and do is perfectly legal.

At the very least, the application of the device firmware is total grey zone. Yes, even when you own the device.

I posted actual case law, Einstein. but as slic notes, this whole subject has been covered before and though I thought I might short-circuit it happening again with some y'know actual evidence, it's clear you just want to re-litigate this (pun intended) for internet points. so enjoy. it's your life you're wasting.

[D-Fusion]

OK, but why is everyone involved with this so cagey about it? And why is it supposedly free, but you have to join some secret Discord channel to get it, and "donate" money to get the latest version? It all seems to operate like a Russian server.

I mean, come on. Nothing about this is normal.

It is shady because it is Piracy
When you donate to a project like this you donate to a pirate group.

There is no piracy, they are not emulating the Virus, only the DSP

Wrong.

It is no different than downloading a Keygen for a product to unlock it except on this Project The Emulator is the Keygen and the Rom is the product you use to unlock the Virus inside the program.

Are Keygens ok since you have to find the vst for it by yourself and the Keygen doesn't Emulate the Product?

No
Most of piracy altering the software, or emulate an anti piracy system, to be able to use a keygen. Many of them don't even require anything, just and installer. The software is already hack.


OsTirus. They only emulate the DSP hardware, they don't provide the OS or any links. They are not even altering the OS. There is no hack at all.

Just the same function as a keygen emulator.
A Keygen Emulator doesn't alter or change a product either.
It just let you run a piece of code so you can unlock the Software just like a DSP Emulator.

When you add a Rom file to the DSP Emulator it turns into that Synth with gui and all since it is made to unlock those functions for that Rom file.

The rom files would be included in the download If it where legal and there is no difference in getting a Keygen and download the vst from the Company vs Hunting down the Roms Illegaly on the Internet.

[SLiC]

The emulator developers have tried very hard to work with and get the backing from the people who own the ROM IP, it seems the IP owners are not interested even when the products are no longer sold (so no impact on their market either way unlike currently being sold software)....I suspect if a keygen developer contacted the software companies they were cracking and asked for a cooperation to turn that into a product there would be a different outcome, so its not the same at all. The emulator developers have contacted the IP owners and want to work together with them, they feel what they are doing now is still 'proof of concept' and if everything goes well and the ROM owner care enough about making legacy products available, people may be able to buy ROMs legitimately (or at least have them released to PD removing the grey area)

Some of us that feel we have litigate use for Virus C ROM as we are ex- Powercore users where our product/support was just drooped after we paid (quite a lot) to run the Virus C on Powercore hardware and won the licence, but everyone will have to justify it to themselves.

[vanerio]

All I see is a company that has completely abandoned its users for many years, with no support or announcements about the situation, making their expensive synthesizers useless and even continuing to sell them with promises of compatibility with modern operating systems. It's disgusting.

[bmanic]

Just the same function as a keygen emulator.
A Keygen Emulator doesn't alter or change a product either.
It just let you run a piece of code so you can unlock the Software just like a DSP Emulator.

When you add a Rom file to the DSP Emulator it turns into that Synth with gui and all since it is made to unlock those functions for that Rom file.

The rom files would be included in the download If it where legal and there is no difference in getting a Keygen and download the vst from the Company vs Hunting down the Roms Illegaly on the Internet.

No way, you are grasping at straws here. Using a keygen provides you with an ILLEGAL fake license. This is not at all the same thing as an emulator which has absolutely nothing to do with any ROM itself. It's a DSP emulation, period.

The illegal part happens when YOU decide to feed it with a ROM that you have no legal license to use.

It's rather funny reading how far some of you guys take these arguments. It's all pretty clear cut when it comes to emulators. There have been HUGE court cases (most notably the ones instigated by Nintendo, who are notoriously litigious) and it was all pretty much resolved there. Emulation itself is not at all illegal. Using and distributing ROMs without owning a license is illegal. Period.

[rasmusklump]

OK, but why is everyone involved with this so cagey about it? And why is it supposedly free, but you have to join some secret Discord channel to get it, and "donate" money to get the latest version? It all seems to operate like a Russian server.

I mean, come on. Nothing about this is normal.

What the hell do you think Discord is?

Using Community based platforms during development means closer relations to users, better and more bug reporting etc etc. Better and faster interaction between both users<->users and users<->devs.

Ever heard of Teams? Slack? Discord is the secret shady ip-logging russian and north korean version of those...servers..

Why is it so hard to understand.... Don't feed the troll.
That's his typical behavior.

[rasmusklump]

OK, but why is everyone involved with this so cagey about it? And why is it supposedly free, but you have to join some secret Discord channel to get it, and "donate" money to get the latest version? It all seems to operate like a Russian server.

I mean, come on. Nothing about this is normal.

It is shady because it is Piracy
When you donate to a project like this you donate to a pirate group.

There is no piracy, they are not emulating the Virus, only the DSP

Frankly, with all the reverse engineering they did, it's surely at least "grey zone".

Anyway, there were enough discussions about this. And, they also got in contact with Waldorf, and asked if they want to cooperate, which would have helped massively with performance, as far as I understood, but, Waldorf said no, because the emulator used to much CPU. Which is kind of understandable, considering people will always compare it to how soft synths run.

Haven't you promised to stay out of this thread?
It was predictable anyway .....

[D-Fusion]

Just the same function as a keygen emulator.
A Keygen Emulator doesn't alter or change a product either.
It just let you run a piece of code so you can unlock the Software just like a DSP Emulator.

When you add a Rom file to the DSP Emulator it turns into that Synth with gui and all since it is made to unlock those functions for that Rom file.

The rom files would be included in the download If it where legal and there is no difference in getting a Keygen and download the vst from the Company vs Hunting down the Roms Illegaly on the Internet.

No way, you are grasping at straws here. Using a keygen provides you with an ILLEGAL fake license. This is not at all the same thing as an emulator which has absolutely nothing to do with any ROM itself. It's a DSP emulation, period.

The illegal part happens when YOU decide to feed it with a ROM that you have no legal license to use.

It's rather funny reading how far some of you guys take these arguments. It's all pretty clear cut when it comes to emulators. There have been HUGE court cases (most notably the ones instigated by Nintendo, who are notoriously litigious) and it was all pretty much resolved there. Emulation itself is not at all illegal. Using and distributing ROMs without owning a license is illegal. Period.

You are grasping at straws here.

There is no Difference in Downloading the Rom Illegaly and add it to the Emulator that is made for that rom than it is to Download a Keygen and Download the Product the Keygen works for.

It is funny how people can't see that it is the same thing in different clothing since the end result is the same.

- The Keygen Emulate the Product Code.
- The DSP Emulator Emulates The Synth when the Rom is added.

[Gam456]

Just the same function as a keygen emulator.
A Keygen Emulator doesn't alter or change a product either.
It just let you run a piece of code so you can unlock the Software just like a DSP Emulator.

When you add a Rom file to the DSP Emulator it turns into that Synth with gui and all since it is made to unlock those functions for that Rom file.

The rom files would be included in the download If it where legal and there is no difference in getting a Keygen and download the vst from the Company vs Hunting down the Roms Illegaly on the Internet.

No way, you are grasping at straws here. Using a keygen provides you with an ILLEGAL fake license. This is not at all the same thing as an emulator which has absolutely nothing to do with any ROM itself. It's a DSP emulation, period.

The illegal part happens when YOU decide to feed it with a ROM that you have no legal license to use.

It's rather funny reading how far some of you guys take these arguments. It's all pretty clear cut when it comes to emulators. There have been HUGE court cases (most notably the ones instigated by Nintendo, who are notoriously litigious) and it was all pretty much resolved there. Emulation itself is not at all illegal. Using and distributing ROMs without owning a license is illegal. Period.

You are grasping at straws here.

There is no Difference in Downloading the Rom Illegaly and add it to the Emulator that is made for that rom than it is to Download a Keygen and Download the Product the Keygen works for.

It is funny how people can't see that it is the same thing in different clothing since the end result is the same.

- The Keygen Emulate the Product Code.
- The DSP Emulator Emulates The Synth when the Rom is added.

Emulation of a piece of hardware isn't piracy.
The ti2 firmware is provided by the software installer, and you must be register to the Access page

Stop trolling !

[mcbpete]

there is no difference in getting a Keygen and download the vst from the Company vs Hunting down the Roms Illegaly on the Internet.

Highlighted for clarity - Yes you are exactly right, hunting down the roms illegally is akin to downloading an application and then cracking it using a keygen. What you are meant to do is grab the rom legally either from your own device or via the official website firmware page update (using your registered hardware). Then it's no different to going to a downloads page of an application and then using your purchased serial key.

The latter is what you are supposed to do, but users can choose to not go this route and grab the rom illegally (or grab a keygen) .... but that's the users doing not the developers.

[D-Fusion]

there is no difference in getting a Keygen and download the vst from the Company vs Hunting down the Roms Illegaly on the Internet.

Highlighted for clarity - Yes you are exactly right, hunting down the roms illegally is akin to downloading an application and then cracking it using a keygen. What you are meant[/]i to do is grab the rom legally either from your own device or via the official website firmware page update (using your registered hardware). Then it's no different to going to a downloads page of an application and then using your purchased serial[/b] key.

The latter is what you are supposed to do, but users can choose to not go this route and grab the rom illegally (or grab a keygen) .... but that's the users doing not the developers.

True
I don't see anything wrong with doing it if you own the HW and use it as a replacement and it is a good option to have in that case since the OG Is getting old and might break or if you own the Poco (Virus B), that doesn't work anymore and was known for being pretty buggy back in the day.

I understand that some of you that have donated to the project do also own the Originals and want to see them preserved so you can keep on continuing using your Favorite Instruments in the future so i guess i was unfair on that bit