Slate VCC alternatives 2024?

[mementus]

Something to insert on the mixbus similar to slate vcc and without USB iLok you enjoy in 2024?
Feel free to share
Thanks

[zeep]

Sonimus Satson

[jamcat]

VCC bypasses the standard mix engine and mixes the audio streams with non-linear summing.

There are only 3 other options that I know of that do that, and Satson isn’t one of them.

They are:

• Universal Audio LUNA (iLok/Mac only)
• PreSonus Studio One (with Mix Engine FX)
• Waves NLS

[aMUSEd]

You know I own VCC but they don’t seem to have any way for people to download the products they own anymore on their website now it’s gone all subscription

They don’t even have a contact email even though they are happy to spam me all the time

[Burillo]

VCC bypasses the standard mix engine and mixes the audio streams with non-linear summing.

no it doesn't, as far as I know.

There are only 3 other options that I know of that do that, and Satson isn’t one of them.

They are:

• Universal Audio LUNA (iLok/Mac only)
• PreSonus Studio One (with Mix Engine FX)
• Waves NLS

Waves NLS doesn't do anything like that, it works the same way Satson does. I don't know anything about LUNA, but I'm familiar with Mix Engine FX, and they work the same way Satson and NLS does. the improvement is in the UX/UI (you don't have to set up the plugins, DAW does that for you), but the "summing" is still linear (i.e. digital DAW summing) with added saturation from "bus", just like Satson and NLS. I don't know where this myth comes from, but this is not how any of these effects work. even Harrison MixBus does this. they're just plugins that add saturation, they don't "replace DAW summing".

the only plugin that *actually* does this that I know of, is one of those AirWindows thingies, and even that is not "replacing" DAW summing engine (which, let's face it, is just a big calculator), more like hijacks it to stuff additional information into the signal.

moreover, I remember reading Slate thread on Gearspace a long time ago about how they were analyzing one of those "analog summer" devices, and it turned out that they too do nothing more than add saturation. there appears to be no magic in the process.

[aMUSEd]

I have just uninstalled it again after being guided to where they have hidden actual downloads for non sub owners. It's just not worth bothering with anymore because you have to install all the VMR plugins too so it's just so cluttered up with unactivated stuff and presets that don't work - you can't even uninstall just those, it's all or nothing. so bye-bye Slate, you made me choose the nothing and have lost a customer

[Dr.Gunjah]

I have just uninstalled it again after being guided to where they have hidden actual downloads for non sub owners. It's just not worth bothering with anymore because you have to install all the VMR plugins too so it's just so cluttered up with unactivated stuff and presets that don't work - you can't even uninstall just those, it's all or nothing. so bye-bye Slate, you made me choose the nothing and have lost a customer

I've downloaded the VMR installer and installed only the VMR "framework" and VCC in november 2023 and it works fine here.

[mementus]

Thanks for replying
I was demoing CLA Mixbus (I know it's another thing than VCC-Like stuff)
Once gain matched, it's very VERY subtle and I can't even hear a difference in a blind test
I probably won't buy it

[aMUSEd]

I have just uninstalled it again after being guided to where they have hidden actual downloads for non sub owners. It's just not worth bothering with anymore because you have to install all the VMR plugins too so it's just so cluttered up with unactivated stuff and presets that don't work - you can't even uninstall just those, it's all or nothing. so bye-bye Slate, you made me choose the nothing and have lost a customer

I've downloaded the VMR installer and installed only the VMR "framework" and VCC in november 2023 and it works fine here.

Ok maybe it works differently if you don’t use their installer app?

[Dr.Gunjah]

I've never used the slate online installer, but yeah probably. The vmr offline installer lets you choose at a certain step which vmr rack units will be installed. Maybe you have to select custom installation or something, can't remember in detail to be honest.

[Uncle E]

moreover, I remember reading Slate thread on Gearspace a long time ago about how they were analyzing one of those "analog summer" devices, and it turned out that they too do nothing more than add saturation. there appears to be no magic in the process.

Mostly agreed. Luna, Presonus MFX, Satson/Britson, and Brainworx TMT all emulate the kinds of imperfections in real consoles that help create their "magic" but who knows how much the actual summing contributes. Personally, I've gotten better results with Luna's summing than with MFX or Satson.

[Scotty]

I wonder if any developer has managed to emulate crosstalk ? It seems to me that crosstalk would add some of the missing mojo we associate with summing.

moreover, I remember reading Slate thread on Gearspace a long time ago about how they were analyzing one of those "analog summer" devices, and it turned out that they too do nothing more than add saturation. there appears to be no magic in the process.

Mostly agreed. Luna, Presonus MFX, Satson/Britson, and Brainworx TMT all emulate the kinds of imperfections in real consoles that help create their "magic" but who knows how much the actual summing contributes. Personally, I've gotten better results with Luna's summing than with MFX or Satson.

[jamcat]

I wonder if any developer has managed to emulate crosstalk ? It seems to me that crosstalk would add some of the missing mojo we associate with summing.

Studio One Mix FX emulates crosstalk. It can do this because it is integrated into the mix engine itself.

Burillo is absolutely wrong, as least as far as Studio One Mix FX are concerned, as this video clearly demonstrates. The non-linear summing, as well as crosstalk, is profiled in the video below:

[Scotty]

Very interesting. I tend to read up on DAWs that I don't own and hadn't even heard of Presonus's MIXFX let alone its crosstalk emulation. I own and have used Slate VCC, Neve 88RS from Universal Audio and Waves NLS Non Linear Summer but found the workflow to be a bit of kludge and they don't emulate crosstalk. I concluded that if I wanted more saturation I could add it on an as needed basis on specific busses with software or hardware that I have.

Having summing integrated with crosstalk would be really interesting to explore. I'm decades into Cubase and getting more into Bitwig and modular these days. Hopefully Steinberg will see fit to add something similar. Looks good.

I wonder if any developer has managed to emulate crosstalk ? It seems to me that crosstalk would add some of the missing mojo we associate with summing.

Studio One Mix FX emulates crosstalk. It can do this because it is integrated into the mix engine itself.

Burillo is absolutely wrong, as least as far as Studio One Mix FX are concerned, as this video clearly demonstrates. The non-linear summing, as well as crosstalk, is profiled in the video below:

[jamcat]

I'm decades into Cubase and getting more into Bitwig and modular these days. Hopefully Steinberg will see fit to add something similar.

I doubt Steinberg will ever add anything like that. But Studio One was developed by ex-Steinberg developers who developed Nuendo/Cubase SX and VST3.

I had actually been using Cubase for about 12 years when I switched to Studio One. As a longtime Cubase user, there was zero learning curve for Studio One.