Live 12 or Bitwig 5.1

[muzicxs]

Well, it was just a joke and I have owned had Bitwig since V1 (I also and have 500hp+ of eurorack so pretty sure I get modular concepts ). But Grid only goes so far- how do you do retrospective record? Step input? Audio to Midi? Extract Groove (and pool it...), Comp Midi! etc...Live has its advantages.

That's the beauty about choice. Everyone need to make up their mind on what's important for them and find the product that best fits their wishes. I don't need any of the functionality you're mentioning, so I literally don't miss any of that in Bitwig.

Awesome that you're into Eurorack btw! I've yet to decide whether it's something I want to invest in. Licensing prices for Ableton and Bitwig are nothing compared to the Eurorack modules I've seen Talk about a money sink, hehe.

What I do miss is a drummer like in Logic with follow track ability

[muzicxs]

Exactly my point.

Reading comprehension is not your strongest point. It could explain why you went with Ableton

[pdxindy]

I suspect few people use the Midi Step Input though.

Love step input, with fold and preview feels like a drum machine just zipping around with the curse keys, but also good for step inputting chords then just using the curser to make it the length you want.

That said, some of the things I would have used step input for (complex high hats etc) I may now use the midi generators to start, as they basically do complex 'fill' patterns which is even faster to get started. I used to love this on the Polyend Tracker so great to now have it in Live.

Midi Step Input is the one thing I miss from Live. I was so fast on it.

For hats in Bitwig, I use Note FX devices. I have a number of saved presets ready to go.

Elektron recently released the 1.70 update for the Rytm and it now has a Euclidean mode that is very impressive. For example, one can remove a single note while it is still editable.

[pdxindy]

But Grid only goes so far- how do you do retrospective record?

I use Bird's MIDI CAP plugin which is more flexible than what is built into Live.

[Dionysos]

So...If I were to purchase any of these 2 full versions today, and keep them updated for the next 3 years, the cost would be something like this:

There's no need to keep Bitwig updated continuously. If your plan runs out, you can wait and see whether you really want the next update (which might be a few months away depending on timing), and if not, you skip it. So realistically for me, updates have been both cheaper and less frequent than your calculation.

[Yorrrrrr]

I like to always keep my software the most updated, functional and stable it could be.

[machinesworking]

So...If I were to purchase any of these 2 full versions today, and keep them updated for the next 3 years, the cost would be something like this:

There's no need to keep Bitwig updated continuously. If your plan runs out, you can wait and see whether you really want the next update (which might be a few months away depending on timing), and if not, you skip it. So realistically for me, updates have been both cheaper and less frequent than your calculation.

This is moving the goalpost. ANY DAW that’s not on a full subscription is dirt cheap if you never update, doesn’t mean anything to say that. The point is to stay current over the course of the use of a DAW, Lives initial price means nothing, and the discounts on upgrades for bitwig don’t add up to being cheaper. Live is without a doubt cheaper, there’s no way around that without compromise.

[SLiC]

But Grid only goes so far- how do you do retrospective record?

I use Bird's MIDI CAP plugin which is more flexible than what is built into Live.

That was the point (of that particular argument ), you need a VST to match some native Live functions...

Out of interest (as I havent bothered with it yet in Bitwig) do you have to remember to put it on every track before you record as well or does it sort of 'just work' like a script? Does it capture automation as well (studio One does and that pretty useful)

[pdxindy]

Out of interest (as I havent bothered with it yet in Bitwig) do you have to remember to put it on every track before you record as well or does it sort of 'just work' like a script?

No, just put it on one track and set input to always on and it records any midi you play (I have that as part of my default template). Then you drag the midi to the track you want. It's flexible because I can play midi parts for multiple tracks one after the other and then drag the bits to each track that I want.

Also, you can add the plugin at any point in a Note FX chain if you want to record the midi output of a specific device.

You can set the duration of recording up to 60 minutes.

Bird's Rolling Sampler is also well worth the minimal cost.

[pdxindy]

What I do miss is a drummer like in Logic with follow track ability

That's why Logic is my second DAW after Bitwig, not Live. Logic's Drummer is fantastic! And Logic's Step Sequencer is better than anything in Bitwig or Live.

[muzicxs]

The point is to stay current over the course of the use of a DAW, Lives initial price means nothing, and the discounts on upgrades for bitwig don’t add up to being cheaper. Live is without a doubt cheaper, there’s no way around that without compromise.

The only thing I want to highlight is that some DAWs like Cubase make upgrades considerably more expensive when you skip a few versions. With Bitwig the price remains the same. So even if you wait 5 years, you still pay the same amount. For people on a budget this is an excellent way to incidentally update without breaking the bank.

[liquidsound]

Exactly my point.

Reading comprehension is not your strongest point. It could explain why you went with Ableton

I see... your thinking is on Random... Try to use Logic (if are on a MAC)

[muzicxs]

That's why Logic is my second DAW after Bitwig, not Live. Logic's Drummer is fantastic! And Logic's Step Sequencer is better than anything in Bitwig or Live.

Yesterday, I connected Bitwig and Logic via Ableton Link. What this means is that you can work in both DAWs at the same time, and they are automatically synced. Pressing play in Bitwig starts Logic and vice versa. That's such a cool way for me to introduce drummer and Alchemy in my Bitwig projects!

It doesn't work perfectly, though. For some reason it skips the first beat. But I can keep the first measure empty to make it workable.

I'm going to experiment a bit if I can use Blue Cats Connector to quickly bounce MIDI towards Logic, because then I have the drummer I've always wanted in Bitwig

[liquidsound]

via Ableton Link.

[muzicxs]

via Ableton Link.

Yeah, and it doesn't work as expected. It skips the first beat