Ableton 12 - Generative MIDI, Multiband Distortion and more

[SLiC]

PUSH 3 SA Live 12 beta just dropped as well (Push 2.0b25)

[Yorrrrrr]

The more I use the beta the more I start to think this might be the best version of Live so far. So many small improvements.

Indeed. It already is to me. Could've been better? Sure, but nothing is perfect.

[revvy]

To be fair, if it’s not the best version so far, Ableton would deserve a good telling off.

[koalaboy]

Can anyone with the beta tell me, as I wait - with the ability to select a group of notes for probability (so only one of the group will play) and I guess any other 'random'/probability stuff.... is there a 'seed' such that it repeats the same 'random' each song start (like bitwig) or is it completely non-deterministic ?

[SLiC]

Can anyone with the beta tell me, as I wait - with the ability to select a group of notes for probability (so only one of the group will play) and I guess any other 'random'/probability stuff.... is there a 'seed' such that it repeats the same 'random' each song start (like bitwig) or is it completely non-deterministic ?

All the probability stuff (and the rather good probability pack https://www.ableton.com/en/packs/probability-pack/) was in Live 11 so you can demo it. The 12 stuff are 'generators' and they are nothing like the way Bitwig works, they 'generate' or modify patterns of notes in the piano roll directly. More 'song starters' or creative modifiers than modular 'evolving' try stuff.

[koalaboy]

All the probability stuff (and the rather good probability pack https://www.ableton.com/en/packs/probability-pack/) was in Live 11 so you can demo it.

Thanks. I stupidly didn't think about that, and sure enough it's completely random with no seed capability, unfortunately.

The expanded probability for notes is new to 12, but I suspect that is the same as everything else that also doesn't have seed capabilities.

[SLiC]

There is a new group option (just randomise on e note in group etc). If I want random, generative music the I would go towards Bitwig, If I want more control over the composition, I prefer Live...its more liker 'rifer' I guess. The probability pack I linked to is more controlled randomization, and with 12 letting MAX write directly to the piano roll I am pretty sure almost anything can (and will!) be done WRT to probability and seed....

Here are the new probability group settings

[koalaboy]

There is a new group option (just randomise on e note in group etc). If I want random, generative music the I would go towards Bitwig, If I want more control over the composition, I prefer Live...

Thanks. It's a tricky balance, and I appreciate many people use a workflow where they 'commit' to something they like so the 'seed' doesn't matter. I tend to prefer staying as generative as possible, but repeatable with pseudo-random. Like 'non-destructive' in other apps.

Bitwig has the awesome 'seed' for devices, but is also getting left way behind by Max4Live - yes, I know the grid exists, but it's so limited in comparison.

I will likely stick with both, but am always aiming for that one DAW I can spend most time in. I'm learning Max a lot more, but also looking at other options as well.

[SLiC]

There is a new group option (just randomise on e note in group etc). If I want random, generative music the I would go towards Bitwig, If I want more control over the composition, I prefer Live...

Thanks. It's a tricky balance, and I appreciate many people use a workflow where they 'commit' to something they like so the 'seed' doesn't matter. I tend to prefer staying as generative as possible, but repeatable with pseudo-random. Like 'non-destructive' in other apps.

Bitwig has the awesome 'seed' for devices, but is also getting left way behind by Max4Live - yes, I know the grid exists, but it's so limited in comparison.

I will likely stick with both, but am always aiming for that one DAW I can spend most time in. I'm learning Max a lot more, but also looking at other options as well.

Yeh, I am a 'uses both' guy and it works for me, coincidently I am back in to learning MAX, seems like the end game in terms of being able to do anything! I think the propagability pack that came free with Live 11 was very under the radar...some really cool stuff like the propagability ARP!



Maybe the melodic pack does more like what you want?

[koalaboy]

Yeh, I am a 'uses both' guy and it works for me, coincidently I am back in to learning MAX, seems like the end game in terms of being able to do anything!

This is the thing - I don't want to be tied to Live, but M4L offers so much. If Bitwig had similar user-module creation, as flexible, I'd be in that far more.

I'm also trying out Loomer Architect, as it's similar to Max but can obviously run in any DAW, though not as tightly integrated. With that and VCV rack, it may be that I can be DAW agnostic but still have enough flexibility.

Obviously the real answer is to just write my own DAW, but... that's a whole other rabbit-hole.

It's a shame Reaktor hasn't had any real updates. A complete 'refresh' of that could bring it back into contention. It's clear that a modern DAW needs a mix of traditional functionality along with flexible user-patching and modules.

[SLiC]

I think MAX is worth learning- it can be stand-alone, host VSTs, integrates almost perfectly now with MAX4Live and (the thing that pushed me back in to learning it better) RNBO lets you make VSTs or run code on hardware Like Pi- you can make hardware synths/euorack modules etc. II think it is /will be worth the effort. Also there are so many greet books, courses, YT videos etc on learning it- it has the resources!

[inkwarp]

This all sounds very exciting... For coders.
Not for men of little brain such as myself : )
Are we missing out?

[koalaboy]

I think MAX is worth learning- it can be stand-alone, host VSTs, integrates almost perfectly now with MAX4Live and (the thing that pushed me back in to learning it better) RNBO lets you make VSTs or run code on hardware Like Pi- you can make hardware synths/euorack modules etc. II think it is /will be worth the effort. Also there are so many greet books, courses, YT videos etc on learning it- it has the resources!

I saw RNBO but I don't know if I want to spend more money on an upgrade to my Max license, on something I'll maybe use rarely. It does look like a next step.

This all sounds very exciting... For coders.
Not for men of little brain such as myself : )
Are we missing out?

I think there's a lot to like about Max4Live, and for simple things it's not to hard to write. I'm a software engineer of 30+ years, but Max is almost as 'odd' to me, as it works very differently for my brain - maybe why a lot of creatives like it. There is a lot of great info out there though, and if you are a Live user, it adds so much flexibility.

For example, you'll know that you can't drop a VST as a midi effect in front of another VST in Live, and have to do track routing... not true with Max - you can write a simple wrapper (that can even let you select the VST) that is a midi effect and can therefore let you use sequencer VSTs in the same track as the instrument.

There are so many other things, but it's just 'handy' if you want to stay inside Live.

[Dirtgrain]

Steinberg Wavelab 12 just came out, and it can now be used in DAWs that support ARA. I don't know what ARA is, but I know Live doesn't have it. Grrrr. I only have Wavelab 11 Elements, so maybe it wouldn't apply to me. But with Steinberg doing this, is ARA integration an expectation in the industry these days? Then again, those turds handle VST so greedily.

[Yorrrrrr]

^^ FYI...ARA2 support might be in the roadmap for Ableton:

It seems Ableton is considering improvements on working with audio/vocals, adding better pitch correction features through a device and/or ARA2 support. An email survey came this morning.