Sad state of Native Instruments

[audiojunkie]

Have you considered the possibility that maybe the very reason all of these studios stay on these low resolution screens that you frequently see, is that they don't want to lose their investment of plugins that don't scale up? I suspect there are at least some in this situation.

Makes complete sense to me. And why wouldn't it? If a studio has something that is working - they will not change it - no matter how "cool" the next thing might be. These are working rooms - not places where pros change things out - just "cause".

That said, I still believe it is incredible that high resolution support isn't just something that is designed by default into the plugin from the beginning--at the time the developer chooses the GUI framework for building the plugin. These are the ones that are making big mistakes by not thinking of the future, and the ones I feel the least sympathy for when they have to remodel their plugins to support High Resolution later.

Respectfully - I still believe this line of thinking is flawed - rooted in some odd space where the belief is that just because new tech arrives (4K, 8K etc) - that the industries this tech is aimed at - suddenly needs to (or will) change because of it.

Your comment on "not thinking for future" also makes a bold assumption that this "future" includes the tech you believe these vendors are missing out on (or not prepared for).

Case in point - last week was an exciting one for us users of Steinberg's Wavelab. Version 12 hit the streets and we are excited - it's a fantastic upgrade with tons of potential. WL is an industry standard mastering app used by thousands daily. But with all the time, talent and effort that went into this new version - the recommended screen resolution remains 1920x1080.

You would think that Steinberg - who most certainly have done their homework over 12 iterations and 25+years of Wavelab - for an app which pros worldwide stare at for hours/weeks/months on end - would have embraced your theory and proudly announced they were ditching standard HD in favor of 4K - but no. Not necessary and not recommended either.

My theory on this - is that regardless of what display hardware is (or becomes) available - the software industry simply does not care about 4K. Plugins developers certainly do not - as their most immediate concern (as always) is to sell to the lowest common denominator right now - to those that can use it.

They cannot (or will not) afford to sink more time, talent and $$$ to rewrite all their plugins for 4K - becuase they know that trying to recoup those costs someway/somehow by increasing prices could potentially kill what little good will they built up after years of not worrying about it.

And let's not forget the primary directive that all these vendors already know (but all 4K monitor owners refuse to accept) - ALL 4K monitors will do 1920x1080 just fine.

Why rewrite anything - when user A can simply their fancy display back to standard HD?

We can beat this dead horse to infinity but after over a decade+ of 4K availability - I still cannot find a single major DAW vendor who indicates that 4K is their "recommended" resolution.

And to tying this all back to NI/Kontakt - the only way NI could ever get this right - is by rewriting the entire Kontakt UI from scratch - which could take years. I cannot see them justifying that cost in any way, shape or form - just to satisfy 5%-10% of a user base who does not want to use standard HD.

I know this scenario burns all those 4K monitor owners - after all - they bought these things for a reason and need to justify that cost by insisting the software vendors "Get on it" - but if 4K was actually important OR destined to become a standard to this industry as a whole - it would have been long ago.

VP

This is really not something worth arguing about. We each have our views, and I’m positive that there are multiple people who feel the same way as we do in both camps. As mentioned previously, my initial post in this thread was not a push for 4k, but rather an observation on the adoption rate of 4k between Windows and Linux as a whole, rather than within the realm of DAW use. I do prefer high resolution support, and continue asking for it from developers, but that was not the reason for my initial post in this thread. Let’s not raise contention between each other over differences of opinion on the value of high resolution support. I don’t think it is worth it.

[Introspective]

This is a very strange argument.

I would be deeply surprised to learn that plugin developers "don't care" about 4K. In fact, I suspect almost all of them do.

[Vocalpoint Studios]

I would be deeply surprised to learn that plugin developers "don't care" about 4K. In fact, I suspect almost all of them do.

Well - if they do - where is the support?

After all - it has been 7-10 years now...just sayin.

VP

[Vocalpoint Studios]

This is really not something worth arguing about. We each have our views, and I’m positive that there are multiple people who feel the same way as we do in both camps.

Understood and I do appreciate the commentary.

Cheers

VP

[pdxindy]

My theory on this - is that regardless of what display hardware is (or becomes) available - the software industry simply does not care about 4K. Plugins developers certainly do not - as their most immediate concern (as always) is to sell to the lowest common denominator right now - to those that can use it.

Video editing software developers care about resolution. For audio software, monitor resolution doesn't really matter.

[machinesworking]

I would be deeply surprised to learn that plugin developers "don't care" about 4K. In fact, I suspect almost all of them do.

Well - if they do - where is the support?

After all - it has been 7-10 years now...just sayin.

VP

The same could be said about VST3, and in 5 years the same might be said about CLAP.


Personally I think it's not complicated, audio companies are businesses and they do cost benefit analysis. NI for instance have always tended to accrue massive amounts of technical debt that bites them in the ass when Apple moves to their own chips and 4K monitors start to become more common. It's not that it's niche, it's that a company like NI might require hundreds of man hours essentially just to keep up with the tech, and flalty NI have always been super slow with this. I would say without a doubt 90% or more of my plugins are 4K compatible, it's only deprecated plugins like Air, Nomad Factory and NI that are not. Now that NI have cobbled together VST3 and Apple Silicon support, they're working on high resolution resizable window support. They said they were attacking each issue one at a time.

Plus I see no "gotcha" in the recommended resolution being 1080p, that's usually a minimum recommendation.

[Introspective]

...yeah. What he said. Nothing to add!

[Vocalpoint Studios]

I would say without a doubt 90% or more of my plugins are 4K compatible, it's only deprecated plugins like Air, Nomad Factory and NI that are not.

Not denying that many plugins are "compatible" but "compatible" and "100% rescalable/resizable" - too very different things and it's the latter where most of the complaints are coming from.

Plus I see no "gotcha" in the recommended resolution being 1080p, that's usually a minimum recommendation.

Me either. As long as I can use my plugins and get on with it - fine by me.

But I am also not buying a 4K monitor anytime soon either.

VP

[LFO8]

I just don't want blurry or jagged graphics when I resize a plugin to a size that is most comfortable to my eyes for viewing and operating the thing. Very simple.

[Vocalpoint Studios]

I just don't want blurry or jagged graphics when I resize a plugin to a size that is most comfortable to my eyes for viewing and operating the thing. Very simple.

Agreed - but not so "simple".

Anytime you encounter "jaggy" graphics is a sure sign of an old school static enbedded bitmap - designed for the days of a single "recommended" resolution.

The only true fix for this is to "vectorize" the jaggy UI elements which in turn can (usually) only be done by changing the whole plugin UI framework which ultimately = rewrite.

There are thousands of plugs out there like this - unfortunately.

VP

[machinesworking]

Not denying that many plugins are "compatible" but "compatible" and "100% rescalable/resizable" - too very different things and it's the latter where most of the complaints are coming from.

Most if not all complaints on how resizing has been implemented are directed at NI, the fact that Komplete Kontrol is still a mess etc. I have no real issues with most other developers here. Hopefullly that all changes soon.

[Vocalpoint Studios]

The fact that Komplete Kontrol is still a mess etc.

True dat.

I still lean on KK v2.9.6 since KKv3 is not even remotely close to what I thought it would be.

VP

[Scoops]

On a different subject and back to my horror story

I had an issue where I loaded the libraries for Kontakt, and they weren't showing up in Kontakt7. They were showing up in Kontakt6 though. I entered a ticket to NI, but in the meantime, I tried to fix my installation by re-installing Kontakt. Native access told me to use windows add/remove. We'll in the middle of the removal, an error popped up and said..."Something went wrong......bla bla bla" Problem was, it wiped out my entire NI installation as seen in Windows. Odd thing was, everything was still showed up, and functioned in Kontakt6. Unhappy with this, I put this in my NI ticket. They tell me they want to install an executable to figure out what 's wrong. I responded by saying no, how can I trust an executable, when you cant get the install straight.

I moved on.....I wiped my ssd, and reinstalled everything. After 4.5 hours I got my computer back into shape, and I saved NI loading for last. It's now downloading, and taking 4.5 hours just to dl just a drum kit.

If I didn't need this stuff for legacy projects I wouldn't bother

For those that say this could be just be some disgruntled person, well, I'm not disgruntled, I'm f'ing pissed off, and for good reaso.

I'm not the only one either

[Introspective]

For those that say this could be just be some disgruntled person, well, I'm not disgruntled, I'm f'ing pissed off, and for good reaso.

I've always thought being pissed off was the best way to get good resonance. It just adds that nonlinearity that makes it work.

[Bombadil]

My 4k monitor is set to 1440. Fine with me.

Komplete Kontrol was just updated to fix a problem in Logic. So far, I have little to complain about.