Synful Orchestra - wow!

[Lunch Money]

You're missing the point.

And being awfully condescending while you're at it. I was a regular patron of the symphony in the city I used to live in (Torreon, Mexico), have been to the NAC (Ottawa) to see orchestral music on a few occasions, and have had the joy of listening to String Quartets on a few occasions as well.

I imagine I'm one of the people who has seen relatively -little- live orchestral music, too. I have no doubt that many KvR'ers are frequent patrons of the arts.

Get over yourself, and check into your condescending and patronizing attitude while you're at it, because it's doing you no good. Oh, and try reading some of the posts in this thread, and maybe you'll realize that nobody's saying that this product replaces a real orchestra (and never will), or a proper multi-sampled orchestra (yet).

Greg

[useruseruser]

The other problem I see as a developer is, that there is spoken of a *new patented technology* to produce the Synful sounds.

My ears say me, that there is a patented technology used, but it's obviously very similar to the PSOLA technology (patented by the French Telecom speech synthesis).

Merely the database driven PSOLA synthesis is adopted to a musical contenxt here...

The original PSOLA synthesis works exaktly like this: loading phrases from a special database and transform pitch and duration transform in realtime...

Very strange (the obvious similarities), I think.

.

[useruseruser]

You're missing the point.

And being awfully condescending while you're at it. I was a regular patron of the symphony in the city I used to live in (Torreon, Mexico), have been to the NAC (Ottawa) to see orchestral music on a few occasions, and have had the joy of listening to String Quartets on a few occasions as well.

I imagine I'm one of the people who has seen relatively -little- live orchestral music, too. I have no doubt that many KvR'ers are frequent patrons of the arts.

Get over yourself, and check into your condescending and patronizing attitude while you're at it, because it's doing you no good. Oh, and try reading some of the posts in this thread, and maybe you'll realize that nobody's saying that this product replaces a real orchestra (and never will), or a proper multi-sampled orchestra (yet).

Greg

Well. Maybe you are right.

But if this instrument is not satisfying for a classical pre-production, so what is it good for?

I can produce a better sound with a good old Roland JV sound generator...

I mean, it costs allot of bucks. For what please?
Merely to have this "new technology" in my pocket but not using it at all?

Or as a kind resurch fee for the developer?

If there is a resurch (I have doubts), so it would be a fine idea. But I think, there are simply already (maybe slightly modified) available technologies used and simply compiled to a special music application.

The result, whathever, isn't satisfactory to me.
And the claims (about the years of resurch) are absolutely not convincing me.

.

[Lunch Money]

Fair enough.

Sorry about being grumpy.

Greg

[M Gardner]

Well, for what its worth, I currently play second desk with the LSO and I think its an amazing bit of software. I don't think it sounds particularly like a violin when listening carefully but it gives the effect of performance which helps convince the ear that it is a fiddler playing - that is the real brilliance here.

There are plenty of things in there that just wouldn't happen with a real performance and I still find the attack is not under full command but for people who want to sit down and play without too much effort (or having to sift through mountains of sample presets) this is a godsend.

[Yossarian]

www.synful.com

The demos are amazing – and this thing only takes up 75 MB (the orchestra just 32 MB)!

Off to download the trial version now.

/Yoss

LOL.

I'm a classic freak regulary visiting symphonic and chamber concerts and also recorded them at pro level.

Those sounds meight impress people, who never in their live were in a real concert hall or a classic music recording studio ...

But it sounds definitively terrible and absolutely strange, if you actually know how classic music *should sound* and (gladly) mostly sounds.

Well, the way we perceive sound is obviously an individual thing but before you go accusing everyone who is impressed by Synful of being ignorant about classical music may I suggest a visit to the forums at www.northernsounds.com . There are plenty of composers and musicians there that are as impressed as I am about this plugin and they certainly aren’t new to classical music.

I’m perfectly OK with people feeling differently about Synful than I do – Eric Lindemann himself has acknowledged that this is not a finished product. I am very enthusiastic, however, about the potential of this technology and I think it’s off to a very promising start.

I’ll gladly continue discussing this with you but as Lunch Money said, please check the condescending attitude – it’s not really conducive to friendly debate.

Cheers,

/Yoss

[useruseruser]

I can live with different opinions.
So I have no problems with criticism.

.

[griels]

I'm a classic freak regulary visiting symphonic and chamber concerts and also recorded them at pro level.

Those sounds meight impress people, who never in their live were in a real concert hall or a classic music recording studio ...

Well, I've only been in a real concert hall a few times, although I've heard strings players live many times. And there are certainly plenty of orchestral libraries that sound awful to me.

There are certainly some strange glitchy artefacts if you listen hard to Synful.. But it sounds more 'alive' than most of the solo strings demos I've heard from other libraries (as great as they are). The best that I know of is VSL or Kirk Hunter Solo Strings. Maybe its a question of immediacy of results - no need to program articulations with Synful, but the end result is not as good as a carefully programmed Giga lib?

Not disagreeing with you... As I say, I've rarely been in a classical concert hall.

Just curious about which orchestral libraries you favour for solo stuff instead?

[useruseruser]

I'm a classic freak regulary visiting symphonic and chamber concerts and also recorded them at pro level.

Those sounds meight impress people, who never in their live were in a real concert hall or a classic music recording studio ...

Well, I've only been in a real concert hall a few times, although I've heard strings players live many times. And there are certainly plenty of orchestral libraries that sound awful to me.

There are certainly some strange glitchy artefacts if you listen hard to Synful.. But it sounds more 'alive' than most of the solo strings demos I've heard from other libraries (as great as they are). The best that I know of is VSL or Kirk Hunter Solo Strings. Maybe its a question of immediacy of results - no need to program articulations with Synful, but the end result is not as good as a carefully programmed Giga lib?

Not disagreeing with you... As I say, I've rarely been in a classical concert hall.

Just curious about which orchestral libraries you favour for solo stuff instead?

You don't have necessairly to went to concert halls. Take a (real recorded) classical music CD and listen...

Multilayering, smart filtering and crossfading. Did you hear from this yet? This are common sampling technologies. (Even this PSOLA like time and tone machine is possible with Kontakt.)

A static sample never can give you the result.

Also smart mixing and right placing inside the ambient room are the secrets of classical composing with computer and (pre)arranging with sampling libraries.

Sometimes you even wouldn't note that's made with sampling libs or even a good preset rompler...

But this isn't the point here.
My opinion is, that you actually can get a better sounding orchestra with a Roland synth expander (more than 15 years old) to trump out the Synful synthesizer with bravour.
(There is already an example posted here in this topic to give you the idea.)

Maybe you can play SynFul with great expression, ok. But the tonal result never sounds like a real orechestra. More like a hybrid electro orchestra with a slightly elliminated lack of expression. Not much more. So I haven't really a usage for it.
But maybe other users.

I actually don't know, where tis fascination for this instrument comes from. It remembers me very much to this Yamaha singing synthesizer, which also invoked a holly praising discussion, but also allot of loud laughts listening to the final results.

Finally bad sungen preproduction was better than this cumbersome and unsatisfactory experimental software (which by the way works very similar to the Synful internally) and gave you allot more imagination how it could finally sound if the production is ready.

.

[Yossarian]

My opinion is, that you actually can get a better sounding orchestra with a Roland synth expander (more than 15 years old) to trump out the Synful synthesizer with ease.

As I've said earlier in this thread, I wouldn't use Synful as a full-on orchestra, it's basically a collection of 10 solo instruments (of varying quality). For a solo violin I'd take it over any sample set I've heard and that includes VSL and Kirk Hunter (which I own). Even if the basic tone is inferior, the fluency of the instrument from note to note more than makes up for this - it just sounds more lifelike.

/Yoss

[useruseruser]

My opinion is, that you actually can get a better sounding orchestra with a Roland synth expander (more than 15 years old) to trump out the Synful synthesizer with ease.

As I've said earlier in this thread, I wouldn't use Synful as a full-on orchestra, it's basically a collection of 10 solo instruments (of varying quality). For a solo violin I'd take it over any sample set I've heard and that includes VSL and Kirk Hunter (which I own). Even if the basic tone is inferior, the fluency of the instrument from note to note more than makes up for this - it just sounds more lifelike.

/Yoss

I understand you somehow better now.

But if the sonic quality of a solo instrument isn't 100 % perfect, so nobody seriously would use it inside a production.

Because: As soon the listeners can hear the "fake", your entire sound probably will not convince. Definately.

If I need a solo Violine in a song, either I have a perfect synthesized simulatuion or I have to "fly in" a violinist. Merely for preproduction (to show the solist my intent and the imagination of the composition) I would use a synthesizer.

And for this purpose I can actually obtain very convincing results with available sampling technology (even apply the necessary expression).

Such a cooperation even can be done without any costs via internet between me and a solist anywhere in the world (as far he can record and digitize his recording).

But the kind of sounding with Synful as you said, isn't convincing me. It sound anyhow strange in my ears, played with expression or not.

So I would take the little work more and do it right, if neccessary.

.

[Yossarian]

I understand you somehow better now.

But if the sonic quality of a solo instrument isn't 100 % perfect, so nobody seriously would use it inside a production.

Because: As soon the listeners can hear the "fake", your entire sound probably will not convince. Definately.

I’m just a hobbyist and none of my noodlings are likely to wind up in any professional production so that’s of no concern to me.

I just like the Synful violin because I feel I don’t need to program it, I can just play it. Hopefully the strings will be made available as a separate and less expensive package – I can’t afford the whole deal atm.

After hearing the Synful demos I don’t think I will hever listen to a performance by a sampled violin in quite the same way again. I’ve become more aware of those little transitions where the sampled violin will have to jump between different samples. It makes it sound dull and lifeless to me.

/Yoss

[Zmies]

Has anyone had trouble installing it? I have the system requirements and I accept the default locations..after I press next, nothing happens...

Yes, same thing here (Win 2K)

-zmies

[geoslake]

To me, since i heard VL1, its has always been clear that modelling is the future.
Those 10gb banks (and tomorrow 50, 100gb ?) are just a joke.

[Yossarian]

I think there will be room for sampling too, especially for things like drums, percussion and piano where the articulations are limited. Synful is one more tool in the box - that has to be a good thing.

I’m very curious about Gary Garritan’s sampling/modelling hybrid technique, sounds like an interesting approach.

/Yoss