Wave Alchemy Triaz [Kontakt]

[Septic Underground]

I think I read a while ago that the Drumvolution and Revolution (i got those both also) would be expansions into the TRIAZ framework

[Hettoblaster]

So, i remembered where @wave alchemy explained that ^^^ so i looked it up. I hope you don't mind, Dan, that i quote you here - i'm sure everyone will also understand if anything changed in the meantime - On the positive side, is my thinking here, this will save you time from explaining it again here, which means we'll have our hands on Triaz sooner!

wave alchemy:
"We will essentially have two flagship drum based instruments moving forward - both native.

Triaz - This will be our flagship drum instrument for one shot / modern sounding drums, drum layering and expansions. Previous products like Drumvolution will load into Triaz as an expansion and we will also format many of our existing drum sample packs as expansions for Triaz too - all tagged and with sequencer presets etc. Users can also make their own expansions as playlists.

Revolution - This will be our flagship drum instrument for drum machine emulations. The new native version of Revolution will feature not 14 (like the KONTAKT version), but 42 drum machine emulations. It'll also have the possibility to import new drum machine emulations as and when we release them.


With Revolution, the sound engine is different, in that the modules you load in that are complex modules that feature sometime many thousands of sounds just to emulate a single drum machine, through round robin and sampling the machines at every possible knob position.

These will be the only two instruments for drums that we will need moving forward, and we will update and expand them

We will eventually do a synth instrument too, that can import products like Bassynth as an expansion. It is planned to be an absolute beast, but is much further out in terms of timeline."

[Septic Underground]

I'm stoked asf

[Hettoblaster]

It's funny - i absolutely hate Kontakt. And i see many ppl complaining about it in these threads.
Of course i might have loved Kontakt if i had bought it, early stage, for example, and used it a lot + had many expansions/libraries.
In my case, i'm a long term Logic user, and many years ago, EXS24 was a top sampler. Until Kontakt... (sort of, right?)
Next, many Logic users (incl me) were waiting for / expecting Emagic (?) ehhmmm APPLE to deliver us an updated EXS24 and it never came... Well, it did, finally, in 2020 (?)

I spoke to a different developer about a Kontakt product, and he said:

"with NI Komplete since some years being at least once a year on sale and containing nearly all major tools by NI, i think the majority of musicians have Kontakt full version anyway."

But it really seems to me that may have been the case years ago, but not anymore, these days!

[enCiphered]

So, i remembered where @wave alchemy explained that ^^^ so i looked it up. I hope you don't mind, Dan, that i quote you here - i'm sure everyone will also understand if anything changed in the meantime - On the positive side, is my thinking here, this will save you time from explaining it again here, which means we'll have our hands on Triaz sooner!

wave alchemy:
"We will essentially have two flagship drum based instruments moving forward - both native.

Triaz - This will be our flagship drum instrument for one shot / modern sounding drums, drum layering and expansions. Previous products like Drumvolution will load into Triaz as an expansion and we will also format many of our existing drum sample packs as expansions for Triaz too - all tagged and with sequencer presets etc. Users can also make their own expansions as playlists.

Revolution - This will be our flagship drum instrument for drum machine emulations. The new native version of Revolution will feature not 14 (like the KONTAKT version), but 42 drum machine emulations. It'll also have the possibility to import new drum machine emulations as and when we release them.


With Revolution, the sound engine is different, in that the modules you load in that are complex modules that feature sometime many thousands of sounds just to emulate a single drum machine, through round robin and sampling the machines at every possible knob position.

These will be the only two instruments for drums that we will need moving forward, and we will update and expand them

We will eventually do a synth instrument too, that can import products like Bassynth as an expansion. It is planned to be an absolute beast, but is much further out in terms of timeline."

Oh wow! That sounds amazing. I hope they will choose the Drumvolution GUI for Revolution..

[SupremeFist]

So, i remembered where @wave alchemy explained that ^^^ so i looked it up. I hope you don't mind, Dan, that i quote you here - i'm sure everyone will also understand if anything changed in the meantime - On the positive side, is my thinking here, this will save you time from explaining it again here, which means we'll have our hands on Triaz sooner!

wave alchemy:
"We will essentially have two flagship drum based instruments moving forward - both native.

Triaz - This will be our flagship drum instrument for one shot / modern sounding drums, drum layering and expansions. Previous products like Drumvolution will load into Triaz as an expansion and we will also format many of our existing drum sample packs as expansions for Triaz too - all tagged and with sequencer presets etc. Users can also make their own expansions as playlists.

Revolution - This will be our flagship drum instrument for drum machine emulations. The new native version of Revolution will feature not 14 (like the KONTAKT version), but 42 drum machine emulations. It'll also have the possibility to import new drum machine emulations as and when we release them.


With Revolution, the sound engine is different, in that the modules you load in that are complex modules that feature sometime many thousands of sounds just to emulate a single drum machine, through round robin and sampling the machines at every possible knob position.

These will be the only two instruments for drums that we will need moving forward, and we will update and expand them

We will eventually do a synth instrument too, that can import products like Bassynth as an expansion. It is planned to be an absolute beast, but is much further out in terms of timeline."

This is super-exciting to me. Already own Triaz but will also buy native Revolution on day 1.

[eecrumjr77]

This is super-exciting to me. Already own Triaz but will also buy native Revolution on day 1.

Agree completely. Revolution is a great drum instrument but the Kontakt interface makes it a little difficult to work quickly. Hopefully development of the native TRIAZ version will mean some efficiencies gained toward development of native Revolution.

Definitely excited for the additional drum machines that will be included in the native release.

[Monkey Man]

This is great news, WA.

I haven't bought into NI yet and am hoping to avoid it if possible, so this really helps!

EDIT:
Talking about both VIs of course.

[Fannon]

Will the new release be a new version of Triaz, e.g. Triaz 2?

I do have more questions, but I can also wait for the release / the new if its in the text days anyway.

[midi_transmission]

So, i remembered where @wave alchemy explained that ^^^ so i looked it up. I hope you don't mind, Dan, that i quote you here - i'm sure everyone will also understand if anything changed in the meantime - On the positive side, is my thinking here, this will save you time from explaining it again here, which means we'll have our hands on Triaz sooner!

wave alchemy:
"We will essentially have two flagship drum based instruments moving forward - both native.

Triaz - This will be our flagship drum instrument for one shot / modern sounding drums, drum layering and expansions. Previous products like Drumvolution will load into Triaz as an expansion and we will also format many of our existing drum sample packs as expansions for Triaz too - all tagged and with sequencer presets etc. Users can also make their own expansions as playlists.

Revolution - This will be our flagship drum instrument for drum machine emulations. The new native version of Revolution will feature not 14 (like the KONTAKT version), but 42 drum machine emulations. It'll also have the possibility to import new drum machine emulations as and when we release them.


With Revolution, the sound engine is different, in that the modules you load in that are complex modules that feature sometime many thousands of sounds just to emulate a single drum machine, through round robin and sampling the machines at every possible knob position.

These will be the only two instruments for drums that we will need moving forward, and we will update and expand them

We will eventually do a synth instrument too, that can import products like Bassynth as an expansion. It is planned to be an absolute beast, but is much further out in terms of timeline."

That's very disappointing to read that the next Revolution version will be a native plugin only. I'm a long time Revolution user, but I find how WA handles plugin copy protection, I'm sorry to say it but I can't phrase it more friendly, very disrespectful.

I have stopped following the development, but the last time I checked it was limited online activation with no way to deactivate a plugin again. Please correct me If I'm wrong.

I just checked their FAQ and I see no real information about how their copy protection is handled in cases where it's potential a problem for you as the user. I understand the need of copy protection, but not being super transparent about it and assure fair handling after the first installation is a red flag for me. A developer should not be at the mercy pirates, but as a user I don't want to be at the mercy of a developer to use my purchased product.

I'm looking for reliable instruments that I trust to be usable also 5 years. Especially when I want to load old projects. That includes trust in the product life cycle (hello macOS updates) but also in the hassle free handling of copy protection.

[wave alchemy]

That's very disappointing to read that the next Revolution version will be a native plugin only. I'm a long time Revolution user, but I find how WA handles plugin copy protection, I'm sorry to say it but I can't phrase it more friendly, very disrespectful.

I have stopped following the development, but the last time I checked it was limited online activation with no way to deactivate a plugin again. Please correct me If I'm wrong.

I just checked their FAQ and I see no real information about how their copy protection is handled in cases where it's potential a problem for you as the user. I understand the need of copy protection, but not being super transparent about it and assure fair handling after the first installation is a red flag for me. A developer should not be at the mercy pirates, but as a user I don't want to be at the mercy of a developer to use my purchased product.

I'm looking for reliable instruments that I trust to be usable also 5 years. Especially when I want to load old projects. That includes trust in the product life cycle (hello macOS updates) but also in the hassle free handling of copy protection.

Thanks for the message, and I'm sorry you feel this way.

We don't see our copy protection as disrespectful. In fact we feel it is more lenient than many developers'.

You essentially get unlimited activations. You get 5 unique activations as standard, and you can easily request more activations from us if there is a valid reason for needing them.

You can transfer your license to another user.

If our company were to ever cease to exist, we would give all existing users a non-copy protected version of the plugin/s.

Yes, the first time you activate the plugin you will need an internet connection to do so, but every time you load the plugin thereafter you won't. This is becoming common place in the industry (see NI and many others).

You also get access to tens of thousands of drum samples totally unlocked in Triaz (as was the case in the Kontakt version too). We don't hide the samples behind annoying protection like most companies.

This is written elsewhere on our website but I've updated the FAQ page to make this clear there too

We would also be curious to hear your thoughts as to why you would prefer this to be a Kontakt instrument? That would make for a far inferior product with a much smaller feature list and no way to expand it.

[midi_transmission]

I appreciate the detailed reply

We don't see our copy protection as disrespectful. In fact we feel it is more lenient than many developers'.

I dont want to imply any bad intentions. But as a user I have a different view. I consider u-he as absolute hassle free for example. But I can understand that there are other requirements of copy protection as well and it can also be done acceptable in my opinion (see next section).

You essentially get unlimited activations. You get 5 unique activations as standard, and you can easily request more activations from us if there is a valid reason for needing them.

That's a system exactly what I perceive as very user unfriendly.

5 unique activations are ok when I could deactivate devices again.

as said, I am not implying any bad intentions, I guess we just have a different perspective. As a user I know that I have to contact you at some point in the future, asking to install a purchased product again. It's like knowing that you have to call the support asking for a counter reset after turning your computer on 1000 times.

I still don't like it. But I can accept such a system, asking the support for a reset, for rare cases of stolen hardware or computer failure when you can't deactivate any more. But I expect no limitations as long as the installations are in a reasonable number per year (I think this is what NI is doing) or alternatively, an explicit way to deactivate an installation to free possible installations again. A deactivation can't be too difficult to add and I'm not aware about any disadvantages for your safety. It's a transaction like the activation, clearing one activation in your database.

If our company were to ever cease to exist, we would give all existing users a non-copy protected version of the plugin/s.

That's exactly what I mean with transparency and clarifying cases where it's potential a problem for the user. It's about building trust by anticipating your customers' potential concerns. Could be a good idea to add this to the FAQ too.

This is written elsewhere on our website but I've updated the FAQ page to make this clear there too

I only looked at the FAQ and in some manual of one plugin. Having it in the FAQ makes sense

Yes, the first time you activate the plugin you will need an internet connection to do so, but every time you load the plugin thereafter you won't.

That's acceptable just for activation. Systems like Roland Cloud, which require periodic online checks, are nothing I'd every consider to buy on the other hand.

We would also be curious to hear your thoughts as to why you would prefer this to be a Kontakt instrument? That would make for a far inferior product with a much smaller feature list and no way to expand it.

I don't like Kontakt that much. But I'm confident I will have no activation problems with it even in the future at NI. That's why I like sample packs + presets for samplers the most. In doubt you can build your own patches when your sampler is not supported any more. But I can understand that raw samples are difficult to protect when it's your flagship product.

What do you consider as a smaller feature list? It is certainly different for everyone. I'm looking mainly for quality and an exact emulation and not new features. I'm trying to find a way to get sequences indistinguishable from the real thing (round robin, correct timing of start position, exact swing options of original units, true to the original parameter ranges etc.) and maybe additional samples processed by real machines or analog gear (resampled akai, tape, etc).

[dermage]

I never had problems with native instruments copy protection, even when upgrading computers or re-installing. When it's the same here, I'm OK with.
Generally don't like cr systems though, especially these, which auto deactivate on hardware change. Hope the WA protection is like native's.

[midi_transmission]

posted by accident, ignore please, can't delete it

[Fannon]

You essentially get unlimited activations. You get 5 unique activations as standard, and you can easily request more activations from us if there is a valid reason for needing them.

You can transfer your license to another user.

If our company were to ever cease to exist, we would give all existing users a non-copy protected version of the plugin/s.

Yes, the first time you activate the plugin you will need an internet connection to do so, but every time you load the plugin thereafter you won't. This is becoming common place in the industry (see NI and many others).

You also get access to tens of thousands of drum samples totally unlocked in Triaz (as was the case in the Kontakt version too). We don't hide the samples behind annoying protection like most companies.

Let me add a different opinion here: I think this is very fair. Especially reading that you would give out non-copy protected versions in case anything to the company is very reassuring. I also appreciate very much that you don't copy protect the samples, so I can use them everywhere.

I do see the point about 5 activations if you cannot deactivate. If Support handles that quickly it might be ok, but I also have the feeling that this may become a hassle. I've had to re-install Windows many times in the past and also had at one time a Windows Update losing some plugin activations unexpectedly. If you could "restore" one activation per year, I think that could save both WA and its users some hassle.