Ableton 12 - Generative MIDI, Multiband Distortion and more

[Yorrrrrr]

There are people who like to have a big clear screen real state when working in the arrangement/session and mixing, hiding both browser (left side) and detail view (lower part). If the old shortcut (CMD+OPT+L) isn't being used for anything that's more important, and people are used to it since forever, why remove it? People don't like when they mess with old shortcuts (even more when there is no option to set custom shortcuts), I guess this has been controversial in the Centercode forum.

[machinesworking]

Could anybody with access to beta check if command+option+L shortcut to toggle Detail View (the lower part of the GUI) is working in latest Beta 27?

It's still not back, they did state they were putting it back in an update, but not as of yet.
Right now what you get is option command 3 for clip and option command 4 for device view. both of them toggle and both can be open at the same time. So essentially more keystrokes and lost muscle memory, but it's possible to close the Detail view with shortcuts, it's just more complicated. I'm happy they agreed to put it back though, as this behavior mimics my least favorite Bitwig device panel trait.

Maybe it's just me but I like the current behavior in 12. I feel like it makes more sense.

We all have different likes for sure. I'm fine with them adding features, but I'm not OK with taking ones away. That you can currently toggle device and clip view separately is great, but the first thing I did was mess that up and open both device and clip view at the same time, meaning that I'm now hitting two key shortcuts to close both views. Had they kept toggle detail view as well as added the new keyboard shortcuts, I would be hitting one shortcut to close both views.

IMO this sort of accessibility isn't something that adds complexity, rather it takes unnecessary movements away, which was the original stated by Ableton point of rearranging and adding to the keyboard shortcuts in the first place.

Anyway they said they're adding Toggle Detail View back which is great, we all get what we want. Oh and I'm 100% behind the new attention to adding shortcuts in general, the amount of mousing compared to DAWs with hundreds of shortcuts you end up doing in Live was always an issue to me, so overall I'm happy with it.

[apoclypse]

Could anybody with access to beta check if command+option+L shortcut to toggle Detail View (the lower part of the GUI) is working in latest Beta 27?

It's still not back, they did state they were putting it back in an update, but not as of yet.
Right now what you get is option command 3 for clip and option command 4 for device view. both of them toggle and both can be open at the same time. So essentially more keystrokes and lost muscle memory, but it's possible to close the Detail view with shortcuts, it's just more complicated. I'm happy they agreed to put it back though, as this behavior mimics my least favorite Bitwig device panel trait.

Maybe it's just me but I like the current behavior in 12. I feel like it makes more sense.

We all have different likes for sure. I'm fine with them adding features, but I'm not OK with taking ones away. That you can currently toggle device and clip view separately is great, but the first thing I did was mess that up and open both device and clip view at the same time, meaning that I'm now hitting two key shortcuts to close both views. Had they kept toggle detail view as well as added the new keyboard shortcuts, I would be hitting one shortcut to close both views.

IMO this sort of accessibility isn't something that adds complexity, rather it takes unnecessary movements away, which was the original stated by Ableton point of rearranging and adding to the keyboard shortcuts in the first place.

Anyway they said they're adding Toggle Detail View back which is great, we all get what we want. Oh and I'm 100% behind the new attention to adding shortcuts in general, the amount of mousing compared to DAWs with hundreds of shortcuts you end up doing in Live was always an issue to me, so overall I'm happy with it.

I'm not a fan of Ableton shortcuts in general. I like the ones in Bitwig better, D for device, E for edit, M for mixer, L for loop view, etc. In Studio One I have my views mapped to Cmd + 1-5. Anything to avoid using more than one hand to execute shortcuts is ideal imo.

Personally I'm fine if they remove a feature if the replacement is more flexible which I think the current behavior is. It's also more discoverable imo. If Cmd+opt+3 opens the Edit panel, then it stands to reason that Cmd+Opt+4 and 5 are view related (which they are). The mixer should have been there too imo (as number 6 maybe).

[machinesworking]

I'm not a fan of Ableton shortcuts in general. I like the ones in Bitwig better, D for device, E for edit, M for mixer, L for loop view, etc. In Studio One I have my views mapped to Cmd + 1-5. Anything to avoid using more than one hand to execute shortcuts is ideal imo.

Personally I'm fine if they remove a feature if the replacement is more flexible which I think the current behavior is. It's also more discoverable imo. If Cmd+opt+3 opens the Edit panel, then it stands to reason that Cmd+Opt+4 and 5 are view related (which they are). The mixer should have been there too imo (as number 6 maybe).

Bitwig definitely has the best shortcuts that way, but it's no wonder why Live has two or three finger shortcuts, it used to be before control surfaces that you would use the computer keyboard to launch clips. I mean you can still do that, but at one point there were no grid launchers from Akai or Novation etc.

Onto your second point though, if you have both windows open, device and clip, then you're hitting two commands to close them, two three finger shortcuts. Adding back the toggle detail view shortcut in no way takes from your experience and it adds IMO less complexity in the end. Win win.

[apoclypse]

I'm not a fan of Ableton shortcuts in general. I like the ones in Bitwig better, D for device, E for edit, M for mixer, L for loop view, etc. In Studio One I have my views mapped to Cmd + 1-5. Anything to avoid using more than one hand to execute shortcuts is ideal imo.

Personally I'm fine if they remove a feature if the replacement is more flexible which I think the current behavior is. It's also more discoverable imo. If Cmd+opt+3 opens the Edit panel, then it stands to reason that Cmd+Opt+4 and 5 are view related (which they are). The mixer should have been there too imo (as number 6 maybe).

Bitwig definitely has the best shortcuts that way, but it's no wonder why Live has two or three finger shortcuts, it used to be before control surfaces that you would use the computer keyboard to launch clips. I mean you can still do that, but at one point there were no grid launchers from Akai or Novation etc.

Onto your second point though, if you have both windows open, device and clip, then you're hitting two commands to close them, two three finger shortcuts. Adding back the toggle detail view shortcut in no way takes from your experience and it adds IMO less complexity in the end. Win win.

At least for me I prefer more control not less. I prefer being able to close the panel I want to close explicitly even if that means pressing more shortcuts. You can also combine shortcuts so Cmd-Opt-3-4 closes and opens all the panels. Effectively doing what I'm assuming Cmd-opt-L will do.

It doesn't matter I guess if Ableton is going to add the old shortcut anyway. I'll probably never use it.

[aberration123]

Enjoying the beta so far, really nice improvements, tagging works well after setting things up.

[aberration123]

.zip attached with 4 slightly tweaked Live 12 themes, added a fleck of colour, not sure what is going on with the pink and the meters but it looks pretty cool.

Classic Medium Dark Green
Classic Medium Dark Pink
Classic Medium Light Green
Classic Medium Light Pink

[qtheerearranger]

i wonder when live themes website will have some ableton 12 themes up?

[aberration123]

Guessing no time soon, they didn't officially work 100% on 11. I noticed some different behaviours when making simple tweaks

i wonder when live themes website will have some ableton 12 themes up?

[jules99]

They just posted on FB that the public beta is now abvailable for all owners of Live 9/10/11 Standard and Suite:

https://ableton.centercode.com/key/l12prpbapplic

[qtheerearranger]

is it me or should there be a clear filters key command for the new live 12 browser? is it there and I'm missing it? I know we can use go back history but thats kinda pita imo.

[Yorrrrrr]

Very VERY happy with Ableton Live 12 here. A little adjusting time with the new browser, tagging system and such, but after that you end up with a significantly better browsing experience. Live 12 is solid and smooth, performance has been great, it's a now a MIDI as well as audio editing powerhouse, and there are so many little improvements here and there across the program that go a long way to a more refined, complete and awesome DAW. Couldn't possibly go back to another version of Ableton after trying 12. Glad I got it.

[legendCNCD]

Thinking about moving from Live suite 10 to 12, I think the best is just to uninstall 10 completely and then install 12 suite, then reconfigure and install packages. Gahh. It'll take some time but I have coffee ready by then

[SLiC]

Very VERY happy with Ableton Live 12 here. A little adjusting time with the new browser, tagging system and such, but after that you end up with a significantly better browsing experience. Live 12 is solid and smooth, performance has been great, it's a now a MIDI as well as audio editing powerhouse, and there are so many little improvements here and there across the program that go a long way to a more refined, complete and awesome DAW. Couldn't possibly go back to another version of Ableton after trying 12. Glad I got it.

Yes, 12 is a big step up...I haven't used 11 since I got on the beta, one of the4 best (maybe the best) upgrade since V4! (Talking of V4 this realty made me smile, not 12 related but somehow seems apt to post)

[mcbpete]

Thinking about moving from Live suite 10 to 12, I think the best is just to uninstall 10 completely and then install 12 suite, then reconfigure and install packages. Gahh. It'll take some time but I have coffee ready by then

I've only ever moved from one major version to the next (8->9->10->11) but would just install the new one 'over the top' of the old. The installer will probably detect and ask you whether you want to replace the existing version or do a separate install. Should save you having to reinstall all the suite packs - the ones that have changed will have an 'update' button by them