Spotify Is Eating the Entire Music Business?

[DrGonzo]

The more I read about stuff like this, the more I start to tilt towards going back to physical media, or being able to download installers, music, files etc. Streaming and subs are not getting better for the end user. It's wonderfully convenient but damn I can't remember when I watched a movie on Netflix last.

[osiris]

My distributor releases to Spotify but I got the weirdest email today saying one of my songs showed up on iHeartRadio. The thing is he doesn't distribute to them and I didn't submit it to them. I'm not complaining but, geez if my song's on the radio it would be nice to know.

[ghettosynth]

edit: so after taking a look around the internet it appears this happens to artists often enough. There’s some scam where people use bots in conjunction with playlists to generate “fake” streams or plays. So even though the artist has no idea theirs songs are part of the playlist they get flagged if/when tunecore/spotify/distrokid take a look at things. I don’t know the details of how this scam works but it appears to be one of many types of scams. There’s some chatter on Benn Jordan’s social media from other artists with similar experiences.

So, yes, that's called fraud. It's a crime. We have laws. People are victims all of the time. What do you suggest that Ben does? He can sell physical media if he likes, everyone can.

Throwing the baby out with the bathwater won't work. It will just be you. Spotify will survive without small artists, like it or not. So I do think that people should publicize this sort of thing so that there is more pressure on Spotify to resolve this in a more reasonable way. For example, you know where the plays are coming from, why not kill those listening accounts? Or, simply count up the fraudulent listens and not include those in the calculations?

[ghettosynth]

The more I read about stuff like this, the more I start to tilt towards going back to physical media, or being able to download installers, music, files etc. Streaming and subs are not getting better for the end user. It's wonderfully convenient but damn I can't remember when I watched a movie on Netflix last.

Speak for yourself. Spotify is getting better for me. Netflix not so much, but my XYL loves it. I rotate through video subscription services as they suit me. It's cheaper than renting movies. A movie that I wanted to watch was on one of the services with an $8/month fee. I subscribed, my Max subscription finalized the same day. I'll keep the new subscription for a month or two then kill it again. I will watch one or two movies a weekend. So, that's 4-8 movies a month for $8, perfect. They will start fighting back on this, of course. They already have, it's why Apple doesn't give you the entire season of stuff at once. However, I watch very few TV shows so that won't work very well on me.

[DrGonzo]

The more I read about stuff like this, the more I start to tilt towards going back to physical media, or being able to download installers, music, files etc. Streaming and subs are not getting better for the end user. It's wonderfully convenient but damn I can't remember when I watched a movie on Netflix last.

Speak for yourself. Spotify is getting better for me. Netflix not so much, but my XYL loves it. I rotate through video subscription services as they suit me. It's cheaper than renting movies. A movie that I wanted to watch was on one of the services with an $8/month fee. I subscribed, my Max subscription finalized the same day. I'll keep the new subscription for a month or two then kill it again. I will watch one or two movies a weekend. So, that's 4-8 movies a month for $8, perfect. They will start fighting back on this, of course. They already have, it's why Apple doesn't give you the entire season of stuff at once. However, I watch very few TV shows so that won't work very well on me.

Are we grouchy this morning? You love streaming? I'm happy for you. For my taste, Netflix and HBO Max mostly churn out mediocre material. Never been into rentals. Before streaming I bought all the movies I liked, and those are the ones I keep rewatching, even on streaming.

[ghettosynth]

The more I read about stuff like this, the more I start to tilt towards going back to physical media, or being able to download installers, music, files etc. Streaming and subs are not getting better for the end user. It's wonderfully convenient but damn I can't remember when I watched a movie on Netflix last.

Speak for yourself. Spotify is getting better for me. Netflix not so much, but my XYL loves it. I rotate through video subscription services as they suit me. It's cheaper than renting movies. A movie that I wanted to watch was on one of the services with an $8/month fee. I subscribed, my Max subscription finalized the same day. I'll keep the new subscription for a month or two then kill it again. I will watch one or two movies a weekend. So, that's 4-8 movies a month for $8, perfect. They will start fighting back on this, of course. They already have, it's why Apple doesn't give you the entire season of stuff at once. However, I watch very few TV shows so that won't work very well on me.

Are we grouchy this morning? You love streaming? I'm happy for you. For my taste, Netflix and HBO Max mostly churn out mediocre material. Never been into rentals. Before streaming I bought all the movies I liked, and those are the ones I keep rewatching, even on streaming.

No, not grouchy, I just disagree that there isn't something there. Obviously if you don't rent movies, then that calculus is immaterial to you. I'm not yet old enough that I'm just re-watching the same movies LOL. However, if you don't rent movies, then why are you even bothering with streaming and complaining about it? What exactly are you watching on Netflix since you don't like their various series?

If you're a musician and you don't like your fraction of a penny for my stream, then don't put your music on Spotify. I would say that easily 50% of what I listen to is something that I hadn't heard before, so if you're not on Spotify, and I don't know you, I won't miss you.

[DrGonzo]

However, if you don't rent movies, then why are you even bothering with streaming and complaining about it? What exactly are you watching on Netflix since you don't like their various series?

If you're a musician and you don't like your fraction of a penny for my stream, then don't put your music on Spotify. I would say that easily 50% of what I listen to is something that I hadn't heard before, so if you're not on Spotify, and I don't know you, I won't miss you.

I started with Netflix to see what the fuss was all about and in the first couple of months it was amazing having a large library of things available that you've never watched. But slowly as time went by both me and my wife started noticing that we barely watched anything on Netflix. HBO Max even less so. Now we're at the point were we are seriously thinking of dropping both as neither of us can remember anything recently what we really enjoyed.

Spotify is a bit different though. Their recommendations algorithms are quite good and through them I have discovered many artists that I would never have found otherwise. 90% of the recommendations are mediocre but 10% is golden and that's alright with me. But still - if my Spotify would be cut today, I would feel a pang of pain for a couple of days and then go back to buying digital downloads instead. Or physical. But Spotify annoys me a damn lot too. There is so much they don't have and tracks suddenly disappear for months etc.

Again, just my personal feelings here, so don't take it as I am preaching to you. But I prefer curated recommendations by someone whose taste aligns with me. That can be a record label, a musician, a friend or whatever. With streaming they are trying to satisfy as many people as possible and personally I just feel you get a massive amount of content of mainly mediocre quality.

[dayjob]

edit: so after taking a look around the internet it appears this happens to artists often enough. There’s some scam where people use bots in conjunction with playlists to generate “fake” streams or plays. So even though the artist has no idea theirs songs are part of the playlist they get flagged if/when tunecore/spotify/distrokid take a look at things. I don’t know the details of how this scam works but it appears to be one of many types of scams. There’s some chatter on Benn Jordan’s social media from other artists with similar experiences.

So, yes, that's called fraud. It's a crime. We have laws. People are victims all of the time. What do you suggest that Ben does? He can sell physical media if he likes, everyone can.

Throwing the baby out with the bathwater won't work. It will just be you. Spotify will survive without small artists, like it or not. So I do think that people should publicize this sort of thing so that there is more pressure on Spotify to resolve this in a more reasonable way. For example, you know where the plays are coming from, why not kill those listening accounts? Or, simply count up the fraudulent listens and not include those in the calculations?

i suggest that spotify deletes the playlists instead of all the artist's songs or at least they reach out to him before nuking his presence. yeah.. why didn't spotify kill those listening accounts? hmm.. who knows? maybe they're pissed off at him for shining a light on some of the shady things happening around streaming and deleting his songs is retribution? could be but we won't know will we.

apparently his songs are on thousands of playlists. anyone can make a playlist right? and "throwing the baby out w/the bathwater" as you say.. is EXACTLY what spotify did. why is it on the artist to police fraud on spotify's system instead of spotify itself?

anyway.. there's follow up here.

https://musictech.com/news/music/benn-j ... streaming/

After TuneCore’s CEO, Andreea Gleeson, responded to inform him his enquiry would be handled after the weekend, Jordan responded: “I guess the guy who deletes 23 albums without warning or communication works weekends and the support staff that deals with the artist(s) and label affected doesn’t.

“Good thing my 300k monthly listeners don’t listen to music on weekends.”

[dayjob]

not just eating the music business but the narration/voiceover business too. they want to steal your rights to your own voice

https://www.tiktok.com/@laura_horowitz/ ... 9189093674

fvck these fvcking azholes.

edit: wow. it's even worse. they updated their terms of service for their audiobook business and put in there that they have rights to make derivative works from your uploaded material which means they can take an author's characters, world etc and make sequels or prequels or whatever they want and don't have to pay the author a penny.

https://www.tiktok.com/@laura_horowitz/ ... 9689879851

srsly.. some real bullshit.

[osiris]

They have this weird game on Distrokid. You spin a roulette wheel 3 times and these random numbers pop up. The lowest number is your place on THE playlist (whatever that means). The only thing is every time you spin and get a number you'll get an email the next day saying bad luck ,someone else drew that number. And you can only spin once per day.

[BONES]

But still - if my Spotify would be cut today, I would feel a pang of pain for a couple of days and then go back to buying digital downloads instead.

Good luck with that. Digital download services are basically f**ked these days. 7Digital, for example, seem to be shedding agreements all over the place. I'd be surprised if their catalogue is even half the size it was 5-10 years ago and -plenty of new releases never make it to the platform any more. e.g. The only way I could find to get hold of the latest Psychedelic Furs and The Fixx albums was to buy the CDs. It's so bad I have actually considered signing up for iTunes, which I assume is probably in better shape.

https://www.tiktok.com/@laura_horowitz/ ... 9189093674
https://www.tiktok.com/@laura_horowitz/ ... 9689879851

Do you seriously get your news from f**king TikTok? Jesus H. f**king Christ on a bike!

[ghettosynth]

i suggest that spotify deletes the playlists instead of all the artist's songs or at least they reach out to him before nuking his presence. yeah.. why didn't spotify kill those listening accounts? hmm.. who knows? maybe they're pissed off at him for shining a light on some of the shady things happening around streaming and deleting his songs is retribution? could be but we won't know will we.

I don't think that's it. I think that it's that algorithms are doing most of the work with minor oversight by humans and they don't want to risk deleting the wrong customer accounts because that's going to directly impact revenue for them. They're not alone in this kind of shady customer account management. All of the big social media sites want to keep their costs low. I'm not saying that it's right, it's annoying, but that's most likely a key factor. Even small social media sites take the lazy approach to problem resolution, e.g., instabans as opposed to more nuanced editing/removal of unwanted content.

apparently his songs are on thousands of playlists. anyone can make a playlist right?

Yes, in fact, one of the little things that annoys me is that playlists are public by default. I always switch mine to private. I'm not interested in the social aspects of the platform. I use other people's playlists, they want the attention so that's their choice to share. I create playlists for me.

anyway.. there's follow up here.

https://musictech.com/news/music/benn-j ... streaming/

After TuneCore’s CEO, Andreea Gleeson, responded to inform him his enquiry would be handled after the weekend, Jordan responded: “I guess the guy who deletes 23 albums without warning or communication works weekends and the support staff that deals with the artist(s) and label affected doesn’t.

“Good thing my 300k monthly listeners don’t listen to music on weekends.”

Sure, as expected. Keep the costs low, keep the revenue high. I'm not sure why you're surprised that shit like this happens. It's distasteful certainly, Ben Jordan isn't the first person to have a revenue source erased because big corps insist on playing ball their way. That's going to happen, but it's not going to happen to individual listeners, which is why yelling at subscribers won't get you anywhere.

[ghettosynth]

not just eating the music business but the narration/voiceover business too. they want to steal your rights to your own voice

https://www.tiktok.com/@laura_horowitz/ ... 9189093674

fvck these fvcking azholes.

edit: wow. it's even worse. they updated their terms of service for their audiobook business and put in there that they have rights to make derivative works from your uploaded material which means they can take an author's characters, world etc and make sequels or prequels or whatever they want and don't have to pay the author a penny.

https://www.tiktok.com/@laura_horowitz/ ... 9689879851

srsly.. some real bullshit.

Yes, that is bullshit. I think that we're going to eventually see some legal pushback on this. At the moment I'm not sure how much of a concern that it is. However, the world's not going back. AI is very useful and we're going to continue to see it grow and it will continue to be used to replace human workers.

I don't listen to audiobooks, so I'm not all that invested in this one way or the other. However, again, I don't get why you're surprised that big greedy corporations are going to leverage their platform for their own benefit? Of course they are. Of course they want to use AI to create content and they know that the individual has no leverage. I bet you a dollar that anyone famous has a different contract.

I asked ChatGPT what it thought about the issues raised in your post and to give some positive and supportive advice to new authors. This is the new world we live in, there are going to be growing pains and humans are going to be as greedy as they ever have. Be careful how much energy you expend in battle, it might not be worth the cost to you.

For new artists engaging with platforms in the music or narration/voiceover industry, here are some positive pieces of advice and support:

Educate Yourself: Take the time to thoroughly understand the terms of service and agreements when using platforms to distribute your work. Look for clauses related to rights ownership, compensation, and usage of your content. If something seems unclear or unfair, don't hesitate to seek clarification or legal advice.

Advocate for Yourself: Don't be afraid to negotiate terms or advocate for fair treatment. While it can be intimidating, especially for new artists, standing up for your rights and value as a creator is essential. If a platform is unwilling to offer fair terms, explore other options or consider self-publishing/self-distribution.

Build a Strong Network: Surround yourself with a supportive community of fellow artists, mentors, and industry professionals. Networking can provide valuable insights, advice, and opportunities. Collaborating with others can also help amplify your voice and strengthen your bargaining position when dealing with platforms.

Diversify Your Revenue Streams: Don't rely solely on one platform for income. Explore multiple revenue streams such as live performances, merchandise sales, crowdfunding, Patreon, etc. Diversification can provide stability and mitigate the risks associated with depending entirely on platform distribution.

Protect Your Intellectual Property: Consider registering your work with copyright offices or utilizing platforms that offer transparent and fair rights management policies. Knowing that your intellectual property is protected can provide peace of mind and ensure that you retain control over your creative output.

Stay Informed and Stay Vocal: Keep yourself updated on industry trends, changes in policies, and the experiences of other artists. By staying informed, you can adapt your strategies accordingly and avoid potential pitfalls. Additionally, don't hesitate to speak out against unfair practices or advocate for industry-wide changes that benefit creators as a whole.

Invest in Your Craft: Continuously hone your skills, invest in professional development, and strive for excellence in your craft. The more valuable and unique your offerings are, the better positioned you'll be to negotiate favorable terms with platforms and attract a loyal audience.

[dayjob]

But still - if my Spotify would be cut today, I would feel a pang of pain for a couple of days and then go back to buying digital downloads instead.

Good luck with that. Digital download services are basically f**ked th4ese days. Z7Digital, for example, seem to be shedding agreements all over the place. I'd be surprised if their catalogue is even half the size it was 5-10 years ago and -plenty of new releases never make it to the platform any more. e.g. The only way I could find to get hold of the latest Psychedelic Furs and The Fixx albums was to buy the CDs. It's so bad I have actually considered signing up for iTunes, which I assume is probably in better shape.

https://www.tiktok.com/@laura_horowitz/ ... 9189093674
https://www.tiktok.com/@laura_horowitz/ ... 9689879851

Do you seriously get your news from f**king TikTok? Jesus H. f**king Christ on a bike!

Of course i don’t get news or anything else from TikTok but if you’ve been on the internet more than ten minutes you understand how links work. And that they get shared and sometimes from places you never go.

[DrGonzo]

Good luck with that. Digital download services are basically f**ked th4ese days. Z7Digital, for example, seem to be shedding agreements all over the place. I'd be surprised if their catalogue is even half the size it was 5-10 years ago and -plenty of new releases never make it to the platform any more. e.g. The only way I could find to get hold of the latest Psychedelic Furs and The Fixx albums was to buy the CDs. It's so bad I have actually considered signing up for iTunes, which I assume is probably in better shape.

Yeah... you are not wrong.