VPS Avenger 2.4 [RELEASED - FAQ in OP]

[Jac459]

Is there a way to replace a sample by an oscillator or a preset (Let say if I want to synthesise the kick) so that I can still control the group as a drumkit via the dedicated sequencer?

sorry this isnt possible. Of course you can just use the OSC-Kick as OSC and place the kick as Arp

Thanks.... It will do....

Maybe for v3 lol.

Said it already but I am having absolute blast with the v2.

[msvs]

[Jac459]

a new volume 3/10

Well, doesn't need to be a genius to understand that this synth is absolutely a beast of synthesis power. I actually think it is even more powerful than Phase Plant and Falcon (and serum, current, pigments as a result)...
And the things you can do with the wavetables and spectral processing are nuts...

I really wonder why they chose not to support MPE when they are so ahead of the other synths for the rest of the features...

[noiseboyuk]

I really wonder why they chose not to support MPE when they are so ahead of the other synths for the rest of the features...

Somewhere back in this thread Manuel talked about it. Rightly or wrongly they feel its a very niche feature that would benefit few users and would take a lot of resources to implement.

[Jac459]

I really wonder why they chose not to support MPE when they are so ahead of the other synths for the rest of the features...

Somewhere back in this thread Manuel talked about it. Rightly or wrongly they feel its a very niche feature that would benefit few users and would take a lot of resources to implement.

Well, it is niche for me... But maybe a good marketing point (not sure they need more marketing by the way ).

[Trancit]

He demonstrates a little issue though I stumbbled over myself already a few times:

When you have the osc muted and you solo and then unsolo individual drum hits it does unmute the oscillator as well...
Not a good idea imho... this may happen if I solo and then unsolo the whole drum section... but for individual drum hits which are actually a level below the oscillators and drum section it should only unmute other drum hits but never the oscillators!

[Jac459]

He demonstrates a little issue though I stumbbled over myself already a few times:

When you have the osc muted and you solo and then unsolo individual drum hits it does unmute the oscillator as well...
Not a good idea imho... this may happen if I solo and then unsolo the whole drum section... but for individual drum hits which are actually a level below the oscillators and drum section it should only unmute other drum hits but never the oscillators!

Well, I understand your point but I actually never use this that way.
I mean in a way to do glorious sequences that are like songs in a synth.
I don't see the point except for demo.

What I do is to use avenger as a full beat machine with drums going beyond just samples. So I use the oscillators as kick or other synthetised stuffs.
In this context, the solo being for all is exactly what I want.

[Razzia]

a new volume 3/10

Well, doesn't need to be a genius to understand that this synth is absolutely a beast of synthesis power. I actually think it is even more powerful than Phase Plant and Falcon (and serum, current, pigments as a result)...

I remember gushing like this about Avenger 8 years ago and wondering why it didn't get to play with the popular kids. Then there was a bizarre period in the first few years after release where a bunch of people in some communities claimed it doesn't sound good (as compared to what, I'm not sure). It seems to have slowly gained traction over the years and gets a lot more respect when people have discussions about what sound design workhorses are really leading the pack.

That said, I have profound doubts that it's more powerful than Falcon. I haven't used Falcon as the last time I checked it didn't have a demo, but I've seen some demonstrations of it. The reason Avenger seems subjectively better to me is because it's got a large percentage of the same capability with a lot more immediacy and the UI evokes a synth instead of a flow chart.

[noiseboyuk]

That said, I have profound doubts that it's more powerful than Falcon. I haven't used Falcon as the last time I checked it didn't have a demo, but I've seen some demonstrations of it. The reason Avenger seems subjectively better to me is because it's got a large percentage of the same capability with a lot more immediacy and the UI evokes a synth instead of a flow chart.

This.

Maybe Falcon is or isn't more powerful, but Avenger is designed to be fun to work with, whereas Falcon is designed to be a spreadsheet in music form.

[Trancit]

Well, I understand your point but I actually never use this that way.
I mean in a way to do glorious sequences that are like songs in a synth.
I don't see the point except for demo.

What I do is to use avenger as a full beat machine with drums going beyond just samples. So I use the oscillators as kick or other synthetised stuffs.
In this context, the solo being for all is exactly what I want.

Well, I am not sure if I understand you...

What I mean is...

Let´s say you just want to go through the drum kits and sequences in an initialized Avenger...

I guess we can agree that you don´t want to hear a boring Saw wave when you press a key to trigger the drum sequence... > as you cannot delete the Oscillator, the easiest thing is muting it, right??

Now you are going through different drum kits and sometimes you want to listen to a drum sound in isolation so you hit the solo button next to it...
And when you unsolo it again to hear the drums complete you automatically unmute the Osc with it and when you press the key the pleasant default Saw wave slaps you in the face...
You have to go up again and mute the Osc again and next time you have to do it again...and again... and again...

Of course there are other (more cumbersome) ways to mute the output of the Osc to avoid this problem but for me the current behaviour is illogical...

There are Mute/solo functions for the Oscillators, Drum and Trigger on the top...
Unsoloing one should unmute the others ... while actually if any was muted before soloing the one part this state should be remembered imho ...doesn´t work either... anyway...

But inside of any of these parts, changes should never affect the upper level... so muting/soloing and the opposite of the single drum layers should never affect muting/soloing and the opposite of the Oscillators, Triggers or Drum part as a whole...
But it does... soloing a drum layer mutes all i.e. Oscillators and unsoling unmutes all Oscillators... this is a different hierachy...

Everybody has a different way of working but this behaviour annoys me... not the end of the world of course...

[Jac459]

a new volume 3/10

Well, doesn't need to be a genius to understand that this synth is absolutely a beast of synthesis power. I actually think it is even more powerful than Phase Plant and Falcon (and serum, current, pigments as a result)...

I remember gushing like this about Avenger 8 years ago and wondering why it didn't get to play with the popular kids. Then there was a bizarre period in the first few years after release where a bunch of people in some communities claimed it doesn't sound good (as compared to what, I'm not sure). It seems to have slowly gained traction over the years and gets a lot more respect when people have discussions about what sound design workhorses are really leading the pack.

That said, I have profound doubts that it's more powerful than Falcon. I haven't used Falcon as the last time I checked it didn't have a demo, but I've seen some demonstrations of it. The reason Avenger seems subjectively better to me is because it's got a large percentage of the same capability with a lot more immediacy and the UI evokes a synth instead of a flow chart.

Well, let me substantiate that a bit more.

(And for the record, I love Falcon and UVI. They have created an awesome and fun ecosystem with all their top quality extensions. Falcon is in my top 5.)

But if we talk about power, to me we are talking about few différents aspects not all equally important: routing, oscillators and modifiers, midi players/arpegiators, filters, FX.

If we go by order of importance (for me):
Oscillators and modifiers: while Falcon is strong and has a few highlights like IRCAM granular/stretching or the resonators, Avenger blows everybody away in my view with the way you control FM and AM, drawing your own curves, the wavetable navigation, the spectral aspect with drawable 512 band.... It is all incredible to me. Big point for Avenger to be the top of the game (maybe can be challenged one day by zebra 3?).

Routing: both have excellent routing features. Maybe somebody help me see something Falcon can do that avenger can't but to me, I have never been limited in anyway with any of them. Draw.

Filters: I do believe Avenger has more choice and great sounding filters (this TB filter !). Correct me on that as I haven't dug super far on Falcon filters but for me it is point to Avenger.

FX: both awesome with a capacity to do per oscillators. Falcon was first before but v3 of Falcon didn't bring much on that aspect while avenger v2 was a revolution. Now to me they are both awesome. (Number one remains phase plant to me, not because of the effects per say but the capacity to easily do per voice effects in a very intuitive manner). Draw.

Midi: Avenger is very good, Falcon is even better with its fun and creative players Point Falcon.

Engine: both good. (Excellent would be something like hive where you can program the general character).

Overall to me Avenger wins. It also wins against phase plant (even if phase plant wins on routing and FX, it is behind in filters and oscillators) by a very very short point.

Then I didn't speak about UI/usability but obviously the point can't go to Falcon on that one.
Didn't speak about mpe neither as it was the beginning of this discussion itself.

[Jac459]

Well, I understand your point but I actually never use this that way.
I mean in a way to do glorious sequences that are like songs in a synth.
I don't see the point except for demo.

What I do is to use avenger as a full beat machine with drums going beyond just samples. So I use the oscillators as kick or other synthetised stuffs.
In this context, the solo being for all is exactly what I want.

Well, I am not sure if I understand you...

What I mean is...

Let´s say you just want to go through the drum kits and sequences in an initialized Avenger...

I guess we can agree that you don´t want to hear a boring Saw wave when you press a key to trigger the drum sequence... > as you cannot delete the Oscillator, the easiest thing is muting it, right??

Now you are going through different drum kits and sometimes you want to listen to a drum sound in isolation so you hit the solo button next to it...
And when you unsolo it again to hear the drums complete you automatically unmute the Osc with it and when you press the key the pleasant default Saw wave slaps you in the face...
You have to go up again and mute the Osc again and next time you have to do it again...and again... and again...

Of course there are other (more cumbersome) ways to mute the output of the Osc to avoid this problem but for me the current behaviour is illogical...

There are Mute/solo functions for the Oscillators, Drum and Trigger on the top...
Unsoloing one should unmute the others ... while actually if any was muted before soloing the one part this state should be remembered imho ...doesn´t work either... anyway...

But inside of any of these parts, changes should never affect the upper level... so muting/soloing and the opposite of the single drum layers should never affect muting/soloing and the opposite of the Oscillators, Triggers or Drum part as a whole...
But it does... soloing a drum layer mutes all i.e. Oscillators and unsoling unmutes all Oscillators... this is a different hierachy...

Everybody has a different way of working but this behaviour annoys me... not the end of the world of course...

Sorry man but I think it is because you are doing it wrong.

Don't browse drum kits in the.... Presets browser. For sure you won't find it practical.

Use the drumkit browser.
What I do is take an empty patch, mute oac1 and go browse the drum kits ... Simple and efficient. And solo and mute work as expected.

[Gam456]

a new volume 3/10

Well, doesn't need to be a genius to understand that this synth is absolutely a beast of synthesis power.

Power doesn't make a synth great

[Jac459]

a new volume 3/10

Well, doesn't need to be a genius to understand that this synth is absolutely a beast of synthesis power.

Power doesn't make a synth great

Mmm. it contributes to it...

But anyway, in the case of Avenger, it absolutely is a great synth....

[DCrown]

I agree, I also think Avenger is ahead of every other synth on the market.
Avenger is a dream synth for me.