TAL-Pha Released! Alpha Juno II Emulation from TAL-Software

[audiojunkie]

JX-8P has the best string pads of any Roland synth. It is known for being the King of Strings.

Not the Jupiter. Not the Juno. The JX-8P.

Since the jx-10 is two jx-8ps, wouldn’t that be better than just a jx-8p? I had a jx-8p that I was not impressed with. I ended up giving it away to a charity. It wasn’t bad, but wasn’t fantastic either. Maybe a JX-10 would be more impressive and still give you what you want from a jx-8p?

[[nx]]

when returning the pitch of the pulse wave back to 0.00 it does NOT bring the waveforms back into a solid phase-locked relationship. Each time you wiggle the fine pitch and bring it back to 0.00 it settles into a different phase against the saw waveform.
It's very audible, as well as visible on an oscilloscope.

I'm fine with new features, as long as it allows you to snap back to the original behavior. Who knows, maybe I'm the only that cares about this kind of thing.

I didn't realize that. I think thats a valid point.

[Septic Underground]

Guys, on some OSC Chips like CEMs etc there is a waveform on the pinouts of the IC, so that the saw/pulse and a octave down divider for the sub and on the pinout.

Some have the VCF as well and the complete voice in fact on the single IC. 6 ICS for a 6voice synth for instance.

In software you can easily make the 2,3,4 pinouts of a DCO chip detuneable from each other, very nice from TAL to do that.

Like someone earlier said, just like the multiple waveforms on a MODULAR VCO where you can use all different waveforms together simultaneously. The jacks on those modules are connected to a pinout of a IC. Well not all but some do. There is a lot of different VCO designs in modular world.

I had a small modular back in the day

[noiseboyuk]

I've encountered what in my opinion is a fairly big problem with the oscillator:

I believe that a big part of the "magic" of the Roland Juno series (Alpha included, as well as the SH-101) is that you can combine phase-locked waveforms from that single oscillator.

However, the TAL-Pha expands on the single cylinder concept by allowing the pulse waveform to break off into it's own pitch, separate from the main (saw and sub) oscillator, as well as allowing oscillator sync. Alright, fine, it allows for a wider range of sounds, and it does sound pretty nice. BUT - when returning the pitch of the pulse wave back to 0.00 it does NOT bring the waveforms back into a solid phase-locked relationship. Each time you wiggle the fine pitch and bring it back to 0.00 it settles into a different phase against the saw waveform.
It's very audible, as well as visible on an oscilloscope.

I'm fine with new features, as long as it allows you to snap back to the original behavior. Who knows, maybe I'm the only that cares about this kind of thing.

Presumably everything stays phase locked if you don't ever touch the detune control. Assuming that to be the case, there's no big problem here - if you don't want to make use of the new feature, it behaves exactly as the hardware does.

[AdvancedFollower]

Playing some more....That X-mod does sound so different...it's almost not X-Mod. Something hybrid. It reminds me of sounds Tangerine Dream used in the late 80s, sounds that have an obvious digital sheen, and yet sound every pleasant, dare I say 'warm'. Although, these would've been made on the PPG, I guess.

It actually isn't cross mod in the traditional sense: https://electricdruid.net/roland-cross- ... eneration3

The last generation DCO instruments are clearly based on the same voice architecture as the earlier Generation Two, but they do add one or two upgrades. One of these is another variation on “Cross Mod”. This time it’s a VCA before the source mixer, which performs audio-rate amplitude modulation (AM) of one DCO with the other. This is almost ring modulation, but unlike ring modulation, AM doesn’t completely remove the original signals, although it does add sum and difference frequencies. The result is similar but perhaps not as extreme, which might even be slightly more useful!

I think the reason they did this is because true cross mod with two DCO's would essentially be digital cross mod, which would require very high precision and sampling rate of the digital controller to avoid aliasing. Even modern VST's and VA hardware synths struggle with cross mod, and we a lot more processing power these days than they did in 1985. The Prophet 08/Rev2, modern DCO synth, also doesn't allow true cross mod, instead allowing "Filter FM", which works because the filter is still voltage controlled.

[Septic Underground]

TALs J-8 had some tweaks to the crossmod:

Version 1.5.4 / 20.09.2021
Preset browser / fixes.
X-Mod callibration knob added. Turn it up to get a digital X-Mod that stays in tune.

Screenshot 2024-02-19 at 10.35.48.png

Maybe this can help.

[himalaya]

TALs J-8 had some tweaks to the crossmod:

Version 1.5.4 / 20.09.2021
Preset browser / fixes.
X-Mod callibration knob added. Turn it up to get a digital X-Mod that stays in tune.

Screenshot 2024-02-19 at 10.35.48.png

Maybe this can help.

Yes. I’ve just been experimenting with this. I was using an older J-8 previously without this addition, but now having updated J-8, I can see/hear that with the help of this new X-Mod calibration knob it is possible to control it in a more ‘musical’ way. I think this will make for some cool ‘LA’ style sounds, which to be honest, are possible even without any X-Mod.
And of course, it adds that JX8P/JX10 flavour.

[himalaya]

Playing some more....That X-mod does sound so different...it's almost not X-Mod. Something hybrid. It reminds me of sounds Tangerine Dream used in the late 80s, sounds that have an obvious digital sheen, and yet sound every pleasant, dare I say 'warm'. Although, these would've been made on the PPG, I guess.

It actually isn't cross mod in the traditional sense: https://electricdruid.net/roland-cross- ... eneration3

The last generation DCO instruments are clearly based on the same voice architecture as the earlier Generation Two, but they do add one or two upgrades. One of these is another variation on “Cross Mod”. This time it’s a VCA before the source mixer, which performs audio-rate amplitude modulation (AM) of one DCO with the other. This is almost ring modulation, but unlike ring modulation, AM doesn’t completely remove the original signals, although it does add sum and difference frequencies. The result is similar but perhaps not as extreme, which might even be slightly more useful!

I think the reason they did this is because true cross mod with two DCO's would essentially be digital cross mod, which would require very high precision and sampling rate of the digital controller to avoid aliasing. Even modern VST's and VA hardware synths struggle with cross mod, and we a lot more processing power these days than they did in 1985. The Prophet 08/Rev2, modern DCO synth, also doesn't allow true cross mod, instead allowing "Filter FM", which works because the filter is still voltage controlled.

It certainly sounds like AM/ring-mod at certain settings. Thanks for the link.

[zvenx]

Would be nice if he did the JX-8P. More interesting architecture than this.

Tal already has a brilliant Roland poly-synth with a sound engine architecture that is truly iconic, and it is the emulation of the Roland Jupiter-8, the J-8.

It would be a little weird to model the JX-8P immediately after the Jupiter-8 emulation, since the JX-8P is really an inferior synth compared to the Jupiter-8. What would be the benefit of spending lots of money (buying the hardware) and spending time modelling an inferior cousin to the Jupiter-8 which Tal has recreated so well? If one desires some of the classic poly-synth sounds of the 1980s, just grab Tal's J-8.

.....

JP8X is weak sauce, but JX10/MKS-70 is much nicer since it's two JX8Ps in one box, so it's possible to make some huge pads, but then, the Jupiter-8, and Tal's J-8, is already capable of that and more!

Couldn't agree with you more.
rsp..
I think the J-8 is excellent and the harware jX never ever grabbed me.
rsp

[MTorn]

Presumably everything stays phase locked if you don't ever touch the detune control. Assuming that to be the case, there's no big problem here - if you don't want to make use of the new feature, it behaves exactly as the hardware does.

Problem is that if you DO touch the detune control, then there’s no way to snap it back to phase lock. A button to enable/disable the extended features would fix this.

I’ll have to experiment to see what phase a saved sound will default to.

[briefcasemanx]

The TAL synths always feel like they're missing something. Some harmonics or presence or something. They are trying to emulate different machines, but they all seem like they have a certain TAL sound to them. Like they don't stand out as much in the mids. Might have to do with the filter, cause It's not something I notice on open filter sounds.

Also, am I missing something or is there really only a single envelope? I don't care if it's accurate with the hardware, there's little reason to not add a 2nd envelope in software.

Yes. The good old Roland sound…..

No.

[noiseboyuk]

Presumably everything stays phase locked if you don't ever touch the detune control. Assuming that to be the case, there's no big problem here - if you don't want to make use of the new feature, it behaves exactly as the hardware does.

Problem is that if you DO touch the detune control, then there’s no way to snap it back to phase lock. A button to enable/disable the extended features would fix this.

I’ll have to experiment to see what phase a saved sound will default to.

That was my point - just don't touch the detune control! Why would you unless you actually want to use it? Honestly I think it's a non-problem.

[mjudge55]

Presumably everything stays phase locked if you don't ever touch the detune control. Assuming that to be the case, there's no big problem here - if you don't want to make use of the new feature, it behaves exactly as the hardware does.

Problem is that if you DO touch the detune control, then there’s no way to snap it back to phase lock. A button to enable/disable the extended features would fix this.

I’ll have to experiment to see what phase a saved sound will default to.

That was my point - just don't touch the detune control! Why would you unless you actually want to use it? Honestly I think it's a non-problem.

Hopefully I'm not misunderstanding the topic, but it seems if you double click it does return to phase locked with the default phase relationship. Everybody's happy?

[Yoloswagger9]

One envelope for both amp and filter?
How does that work... I've never encountered a scenario where I would want to use the same env for both.

I must be missing something?
Also why is it this weird aaaadsr env instead of a mseg??

[mjudge55]

One envelope for both amp and filter?
How does that work... I've never encountered a scenario where I would want to use the same env for both.

I must be missing something?

Yeah same as on the sh 101 you had one to share for both. There’s also a switch to have the vca just gate on keypress and env affects only filter. You can still make quite a lot of good sounds with this setup.