Vengeance Producer Suite - AVENGER - 1.8.5 the main thread

VST, AU, AAX, CLAP, etc. Plugin Virtual Instruments Discussion
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VPS Avenger

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DCrown wrote: Thu Dec 21, 2023 10:19 am I don't care about tv or ads or movies at all, I am not a consumer of such things. Do you still have or use tv in your country? , sounds like I received a message from someone from the past.
I would never pay people who try to earn money without basic skills, who buys and pays for a car that can only drive backwards?!
And that's exactly where the problem lies. You don't care because you only think of yourself and are unable to see the big picture.
If a company like Vengeance shared your self-centered view, there would be no selection of so many expansions. They produce to cover the entire spectrum to make money with people who are in need of specific sounds, samples, presets.
Grow up

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It never ceases to amaze me how enthusiastically people will argue against their own best interests.

"It doesn't affect me, so who cares? And if it affects you, then that's bad because you (fill in the blank)"

I use Avenger because it's one of the best synths out there to do your own sound design. It does practically everything as well as or better than other synths. I generally don't use other people's presets, or when I do so, it is very sparingly and for the sake of expediency. That doesn't mean that I should encourage people to just shut up about a policy that is brazenly anti-consumer. To tacitly accept it is bad enough. To heap scorn on other people for being upset about it because you imagine their use case for the problem product makes you superior is more contemptible than whoever you imagine is engaging in "mediocrity" for using presets.

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noiseboyuk wrote: Thu Dec 21, 2023 10:26 am
enCiphered wrote: Thu Dec 21, 2023 10:11 am However, if you earn money with it because you create content for TV, advertising, or write soundtracks for films, then not. Because then you are constantly dependent on production-ready samples of all kinds, always available when you need them.
Of course, needless to say that you shouldn't implement vocals one-to-one in your project but change or adapt them accordingly.
Honestly there's nothing different about Avenger samples than anyone else's here.

There's two overlapping issues:

1. Being sued for breach of an EULA. Keilworth say they won't do this. Other sample vendors maybe not. Still unlikely though.

2. Getting a copyright strike from YouTube or a streaming aggregator. Highly likely. I once got this on a 100% live vocal track, an original song, but at least it was quickly dismissed. Point is - strikes are ubiquitous, and you need to be able to prove your stuff is original to contest it.

Production music has not allowed exposed samples for years for this reason, even in stems. By far and away the best way forward is to make original stuff, and not use exposed loops of any kind, unless you can get a written authorisation imo, because of (2) not (1).

The more exposed it is, the more trouble you are likely to have.
"Commercial Use Limitations:"
This phrase introduces a restriction on the commercial use of certain elements.

"The terms explicitly mention that you may not commercially use any compositions, melodies, melody-loops, lyrics, and vocal-samples or parts thereof from any Vengeance Samples or Audio Plugin Libraries."
This specifies the types of content that are subject to the restriction. It includes compositions (complete musical pieces), melodies (tune or sequence of notes), melody-loops (repeating musical phrases), lyrics (words of a song), and vocal-samples (recordings of human voices) or parts thereof (portions of these elements).

"All rights on these elements are owned by the entity providing the software."
This clarifies that the entity (likely Vengeance Sound or a related entity) that provides the software holds all the rights to the mentioned elements. "All rights" typically includes copyright and other intellectual property rights.

Interpretation:
In simpler terms, this section of the agreement is stating that you are not allowed to use any of the mentioned musical elements (compositions, melodies, melody-loops, lyrics, vocal-samples, or parts of these) from the Vengeance Samples or Audio Plugin Libraries for commercial purposes. Commercial use refers to activities where you might make money or derive financial benefit, such as selling a product that includes these musical elements.

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Razzia wrote: Thu Dec 21, 2023 12:35 pm It never ceases to amaze me how enthusiastically people will argue against their own best interests.

"It doesn't affect me, so who cares? And if it affects you, then that's bad because you (fill in the blank)"

... To heap scorn on other people for being upset about it because you imagine their use case for the problem product makes you superior is more contemptible than whoever you imagine is engaging in "mediocrity" for using presets.

I am glad, someone has noticed Avenger can also be used as an instrument or creative tool for sound design,
but
don't you get it? I don't watch movies, I don't watch ads with music, so I don't care about the music there.
Movies have music, so be creative and become a master in creating music and don't produce useless cars no one needs.
When you go to a doctor, you expect him to have professional skills, don't you?!
If someone built houses that collapse after 6 months, would you want him to build your house and pay him?
That's the quality of a lot of today's music.
Today it's released, in three weeks it's passed out of mind, lack of quality and
"fast food" always is a mass product, a product that quickly can be made by "pressing one key" only.

Prince could perform, record and mix one hit in one night, but speed doesn't matter, you can spend two years on producing an album, if you put some effort, love, creativity and soul to it.

Someone wrote some people pay for fast - food music? That's where the problem lies and it's not a problem at the same time, because I just don't care about such music, no appreciation at all.
Just watch Rick Beato presenting Top10 of Spotify and you know what today's standard of music production is, it's worth nothing no matter whether all these producers make money.

If only two so called "producers" decide to use the same SQ preset and both of them release it, then there is a problem. Don't you get it?! Only two?! Are there two users of Avenger only?!
I am one, who is the other?
So the vocal presets and SQ presets of Avenger are more or less useless, maybe just have fun with it, maybe impress your girl friend by pretending to be a composer, producer and musician, you don't have to tell her that you pressed one key only

Keep on pressing one key on your keyboard or just use your mouse and proudly call yourself a producer.
Btw I also don't care about fastfood,
i don't eat it!

That's the sign of the times:
Hyping lack of creativity and skills and
hyping laziness.
AI will bring it to the next level.

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AxlMaldini wrote: Thu Dec 21, 2023 4:21 pm"Commercial Use Limitations:" etc
Yes, as much discussed. But in the (absurd) legalese you seem to have missed the point.

Do we know of a single case where Keilworth has persued someone for using an SQ or AR in a commercial recording? Manuel has said publicly that they are never going to do this in any normal commercial use. Which of course begs the question as to why the terms are as they are - I think it's ridiculous but there we go.

The point is - this is a theoretical concern (it's never happened and Manuel says it never will happen) while everyone ignores the practical concern - they are going to get automated copyright strikes everywhere regardless of any EULA wording.
http://www.guyrowland.co.uk
http://www.sound-on-screen.com
W10, i7 7820X, 64gb RAM, RME Babyface, 1050ti, PT 2023 Ultimate, Cubase Pro 13
Macbook Air M2 OSX 10.15

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It is very very naive to believe the words of the sounddesigner (he's not even the dev as he stated) in a forum post, when the actual legal document tells otherwise. That's the whole point. --Insert quotes here from people telling you one thing but doing the other--

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DCrown wrote: Thu Dec 21, 2023 7:47 pm
Razzia wrote: Thu Dec 21, 2023 12:35 pm It never ceases to amaze me how enthusiastically people will argue against their own best interests.

"It doesn't affect me, so who cares? And if it affects you, then that's bad because you (fill in the blank)"

... To heap scorn on other people for being upset about it because you imagine their use case for the problem product makes you superior is more contemptible than whoever you imagine is engaging in "mediocrity" for using presets.

I am glad, someone has noticed Avenger can also be used as an instrument or creative tool for sound design,
but
don't you get it? I don't watch movies, I don't watch ads with music, so I don't care about the music there.
Movies have music, so be creative and become a master in creating music and don't produce useless cars no one needs.
When you go to a doctor, you expect him to have professional skills, don't you?!
If someone built houses that collapse after 6 months, would you want him to build your house and pay him?
That's the quality of a lot of today's music.
Today it's released, in three weeks it's passed out of mind, lack of quality and
"fast food" always is a mass product, a product that quickly can be made by "pressing one key" only.

Prince could perform, record and mix one hit in one night, but speed doesn't matter, you can spend two years on producing an album, if you put some effort, love, creativity and soul to it.

Someone wrote some people pay for fast - food music? That's where the problem lies and it's not a problem at the same time, because I just don't care about such music, no appreciation at all.
Just watch Rick Beato presenting Top10 of Spotify and you know what today's standard of music production is, it's worth nothing no matter whether all these producers make money.

If only two so called "producers" decide to use the same SQ preset and both of them release it, then there is a problem. Don't you get it?! Only two?! Are there two users of Avenger only?!
I am one, who is the other?
So the vocal presets and SQ presets of Avenger are more or less useless, maybe just have fun with it, maybe impress your girl friend by pretending to be a composer, producer and musician, you don't have to tell her that you pressed one key only

Keep on pressing one key on your keyboard or just use your mouse and proudly call yourself a producer.
Btw I also don't care about fastfood,
i don't eat it!

That's the sign of the times:
Hyping lack of creativity and skills and
hyping laziness.
AI will bring it to the next level.
I have no problem with your views here, though your feelings on the subject are a lot stronger than mine. Murky, potentially anti-consumer trade practices from a developer on whom I rely for my favorite synth bothers me way more than whether some hack builds a full song out of phrases that were composed by Manuel and had it turn out better than 80% of my own music. Whether or not it's going to be actively enforced as written, the language is there in the EULA, and selling presets with a clause prohibiting use in commercial compositions without permission is kind of like selling a accounting software and prohibiting use in a professional setting without special permission. Who thinks to check the license agreement for a clause like that? It's the purpose of the product.

Probably neither of us will be buying a $75 preset pack, but my concern is that the next awful terms in the license agreement could relate to some piece of software that I do care about, and probably someone else will be on here cheering it on. So even though it will accomplish nothing, I think it's important to at least try to have a discussion about it

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The ONLY thing that matters is the terms you accept when you buy/install the software. Anything else is irrelevant. If you accept to not use some samples or vocals commercially, but you still do because you just think the terms make no sense, then you just violated the terms and if you ever would get sued(even if its highly unlikely, doesnt matter), you would probably lose because you accepted these terms.

But just ask any lawyer (im not, this is just my opinion), im pretty sure they are gonna say the same.

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DizzlerMusic wrote: Fri Dec 22, 2023 3:00 pm The ONLY thing that matters is the terms you accept when you buy/install the software. Anything else is irrelevant. If you accept to not use some samples or vocals commercially, but you still do because you just think the terms make no sense, then you just violated the terms and if you ever would get sued(even if its highly unlikely, doesnt matter), you would probably lose because you accepted these terms.

But just ask any lawyer (im not, this is just my opinion), im pretty sure they are gonna say the same.
No, it's absolutely not the only thing that matters.

1. In practice, copyright strikes matter far, far more, and they have nothing to do with the EULA.

2. Unless enforced, the EULA is meaningless in practice. As far as we know, it has never been enforced in this area, and Manuel says it never will for any normal usage. (FWIW those words of Manuel are now citable in any dispute)

3. Whatever is written in an EULA can be legally challenged if deemed unreasonable.
http://www.guyrowland.co.uk
http://www.sound-on-screen.com
W10, i7 7820X, 64gb RAM, RME Babyface, 1050ti, PT 2023 Ultimate, Cubase Pro 13
Macbook Air M2 OSX 10.15

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noiseboyuk wrote: Sat Dec 23, 2023 1:04 am
DizzlerMusic wrote: Fri Dec 22, 2023 3:00 pm The ONLY thing that matters is the terms you accept when you buy/install the software. Anything else is irrelevant. If you accept to not use some samples or vocals commercially, but you still do because you just think the terms make no sense, then you just violated the terms and if you ever would get sued(even if its highly unlikely, doesnt matter), you would probably lose because you accepted these terms.

But just ask any lawyer (im not, this is just my opinion), im pretty sure they are gonna say the same.
No, it's absolutely not the only thing that matters.

1. In practice, copyright strikes matter far, far more, and they have nothing to do with the EULA.

2. Unless enforced, the EULA is meaningless in practice. As far as we know, it has never been enforced in this area, and Manuel says it never will for any normal usage. (FWIW those words of Manuel are now citable in any dispute)

3. Whatever is written in an EULA can be legally challenged if deemed unreasonable.
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Thanks Alan for this info man

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Just want to announce, that i am working on a Trance Classics Expansion!

Already included:

B.B.E. - Seven days and one week
Barthezz - On the move
Carlos - The silmarilla
Cassiopaya - Overdose
Cherry Moon Traxx - The house of house
Darude - Sandstorm
General Base - Rhythm and Drums
Jens - Loops and things
Legend B. - Lost in Love
Nalin & Kane - Beachball
Nicolai - Ready to flow
Paul van Dyk - For an angel
PKK - Ressuraction
Svenson & Gielen - Twisted
X-Cabs - Neuro
(To be continued...)
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Intel I9 9900X / Asus Prime X299-A / 32 GB DDR 4 / NVidia Geforce RTX 2080 / Focusrite Scarlett 2i4 / Win 10 Pro 64 Bit / Ableton Live 11 64bit / Reason 11

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Demuvi wrote: Wed Feb 14, 2024 9:07 pm Just want to announce, that i am working on a Trance Classics Expansion!

Already included:

B.B.E. - Seven days and one week
Barthezz - On the move
Carlos - The silmarilla
Cassiopaya - Overdose
Cherry Moon Traxx - The house of house
Darude - Sandstorm
General Base - Rhythm and Drums
Jens - Loops and things
Legend B. - Lost in Love
Nalin & Kane - Beachball
Nicolai - Ready to flow
Paul van Dyk - For an angel
PKK - Ressuraction
Svenson & Gielen - Twisted
X-Cabs - Neuro
(To be continued...)
Absolutely looking forward to this! I have the 90s & Rave expansions and the quality is really on par with those produced by vengeance :)

Can’t wait to see the full track list!

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Hey, Happy to hear that.
There are already two new titles included.

Quench - Dreams
Push - Universal Nation.

Working on:
Da Hool - Meets her at the loveparade
RMB - Redemption
Tiesto - Adiago for Strings
Cygnus X - Superstring

....and if you have a wish? :)

Kind Regards. :)
Kensingtonmedia wrote: Mon Feb 19, 2024 11:41 pm
Demuvi wrote: Wed Feb 14, 2024 9:07 pm Just want to announce, that i am working on a Trance Classics Expansion!

Already included:

B.B.E. - Seven days and one week
Barthezz - On the move
Carlos - The silmarilla
Cassiopaya - Overdose
Cherry Moon Traxx - The house of house
Darude - Sandstorm
General Base - Rhythm and Drums
Jens - Loops and things
Legend B. - Lost in Love
Nalin & Kane - Beachball
Nicolai - Ready to flow
Paul van Dyk - For an angel
PKK - Ressuraction
Svenson & Gielen - Twisted
X-Cabs - Neuro
(To be continued...)
Absolutely looking forward to this! I have the 90s & Rave expansions and the quality is really on par with those produced by vengeance :)

Can’t wait to see the full track list!
Intel I9 9900X / Asus Prime X299-A / 32 GB DDR 4 / NVidia Geforce RTX 2080 / Focusrite Scarlett 2i4 / Win 10 Pro 64 Bit / Ableton Live 11 64bit / Reason 11

Post

Demuvi wrote: Tue Feb 20, 2024 2:06 pm Hey, Happy to hear that.
There are already two new titles included.

Quench - Dreams
Push - Universal Nation.

Working on:
Da Hool - Meets her at the loveparade
RMB - Redemption
Tiesto - Adiago for Strings
Cygnus X - Superstring

....and if you have a wish? :)

Kind Regards. :)
Kensingtonmedia wrote: Mon Feb 19, 2024 11:41 pm
Demuvi wrote: Wed Feb 14, 2024 9:07 pm Just want to announce, that i am working on a Trance Classics Expansion!

Already included:

B.B.E. - Seven days and one week
Barthezz - On the move
Carlos - The silmarilla
Cassiopaya - Overdose
Cherry Moon Traxx - The house of house
Darude - Sandstorm
General Base - Rhythm and Drums
Jens - Loops and things
Legend B. - Lost in Love
Nalin & Kane - Beachball
Nicolai - Ready to flow
Paul van Dyk - For an angel
PKK - Ressuraction
Svenson & Gielen - Twisted
X-Cabs - Neuro
(To be continued...)
Absolutely looking forward to this! I have the 90s & Rave expansions and the quality is really on par with those produced by vengeance :)

Can’t wait to see the full track list!
i got all packs and this will be an instant purchase too!

Scooter - Hyper Hyper
Zyon - No Fate
Sven Väth - L'Esperanza
The Age Of Love – The Age Of Love
Dance 2 Trance – Hello San Francisco
DAW FL Studio Audio Interface Focusrite Scarlett 1st Gen 2i2 CPU Intel i7-7700K 4.20 GHz, RAM 32 GB Dual-Channel DDR4 @2400MHz Corsair Vengeance. MB Asus Prime Z270-K, GPU Gainward 1070 GTX GS 8GB NT Be Quiet DP 550W OS Win10 64Bit

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