Is DS-404 a good sampler by today's standard?

[TVD]

Please explain why or why not? I love options.

[SecondSkin]

DS404 is still a usable sampler...the UI just sucks (actually, its harder to figure out than some of the puzzles in Myst).

Anyway, it can do most things you would need, just not easily.

[SampleScience]

Yep, the GUI is very unintuitive. That said, it a very good sampler that I like to use with multi-samples, plus you can download many free patches for it at the Computer Music website.

[Sascha Franck]

For a freebie (well, at least, almost free, considering the cost of one CM mag) it's very good, but it somewhat fails badly when being compared to others.
The UI really isn't up to nowadays standards (mapping stuff is a pain) and personally I just hate the fact it's using a proprietary file format to save patches and samples in (others, such as EXS, Kontakt and HALion use folder-ed samples and instrument definitions, so re-using your patches with other samplers is WAY easier).

[pljones]

Of course, it's supported by ESC so getting stuff in isn't that hard. Dunno if Awave supports it.

Pros: free(-ish), more extensive feature set (in the UI) than sfz.
Cons: proprietry file format, less-than-intuitive UI.

I don't think there is another sampler around at the price with the same (extensive) set of features. Much as I like to annoy Dave@Muon about DS-404, it's very good value for money.

[Crossinger]

and personally I just hate the fact it's using a proprietary file format to save patches and samples in (others, such as EXS, Kontakt and HALion use folder-ed samples and instrument definitions, so re-using your patches with other samplers is WAY easier).

Sometimes this proprietary file format can be very useful. E.g. if you are moving your sequencer-tracks much (to other people's laptops etc.) and can't always trust to have the samples at the right place on the destination machine - or the folder doesn't exist at all. If you are on your own on a single machine, then there's no need for a monolithic file format.

J.

[Sascha Franck]

Sometimes this proprietary file format can be very useful. E.g. if you are moving your sequencer-tracks much (to other people's laptops etc.) and can't always trust to have the samples at the right place on the destination machine - or the folder doesn't exist at all.

Well, this only makes sense for complete proprietary libraries (such as the variuos "kompakt powered" ones).
In case you're dealing with your own patches, proprietary files are making no sense at all, not even if you move things between computers a lot (which is what I'm doing constantly).
You just need to save your patch anyways when moving things to get the sample content with you as well. And as the only proper place to save patches to would be song folders it simply doesn't make any difference whether I just save an instrument definition file along with some sample folder or a single proprietary patch.

Oh yes, of course there's allways dumb people only saving the instrument file without the samples... but those should perhaps stay away from digital audio anyways.

[omicrom]

The Ds-404 serves as a patch player better than doing your own sample sets. If you have a sample conversion tool like Extreme Sample Converter,
You can change a lot of other formats to the DS-404.
It is a tad tedious to program and the multi-sample functions can confuse the sampler impaired. I would suggest some of the other samplers available on-line that fit your budget if you want to program your own sets of patches easier and friendlier.
BUY REASON 2.5 NO MORE SAMPLER PROBLEMS!! YEAH!!

[steveholt]

I also find the fact that it stores all the samples in its chunk - and therefore in your saved music sequence - a problem. With a big sample set it is easy to end up with huge sequences, usually storing away the same stuff in each of them.

I also agee with the UI comments - I nearly went crazy trying to set a loop point, and just couldn't select the point I wanted. Whty would anyone make it so hard?

Steve

[Muon Software Ltd]

Whty would anyone make it so hard?

<sigh>

...just zoom right in to where you want the loop point and double-click. No idea why that is considered to be "hard"

While I'm here, I've explained a couple of times in the past already why DS404's GUI is like it is, but for the record: we had a very small budget to work with and a savagely shortened deadline when CM decided to get DS404 plus a huge glob of patches onto issue 50. It's a miracle the UI actually works at all given the time pressure everyone was under to hit their print deadline

Many, many people have also asked if DS404 will ever get this feature or that feature or this improvement or whatever. Sadly, CM have never come back to us and requested any modifications. There has never been any ongoing committment to developing these plugins at their end, so these plugins are what they are and are unlikely to ever progress specwise. I maintain CM101/CM303/DS404/SR202 in my own (incredibly limited) spare time as a favour to the 4000+ registered users.

If you need encouragement to persevere, I can brew up DS404 patches in a matter of seconds and I know many others who can - once you memorise the button sequences (just like you once had to do on good old fashioned hardware!) the workflow is blisteringly fast.

Regards
Dave

[Z3R0T0N1N]

hi dave;
it is a great sampler, no question, and the filters are beautiful. It is good to hear that you can make patches for it very quickly. That gives me hope. I personally have always run into a wall the moment I try to set up a multi-layered and/or multi-timbral program. But I will persevere!
As to the original question: YES, it's great, but be prepared to spend some time getting to know it, or get ESC.
Cheerz.

[Muon Software Ltd]

I personally have always run into a wall the moment I try to set up a multi-layered and/or multi-timbral program

It isn't at all difficult. CM ran a tutorial on this some time ago, and luckily you can download a copy from their website:

http://www.computermusic.co.uk/tutorial/multi404.asp

Cheers
Dave

[maximilians1]

Any chance of a re-release outside of cm? with some bells and whistles, for what it is at the moment its a steal of a deal.

[Muon Software Ltd]

The best bits of DS404 and SR202 have been combined and extended massively over the last year to become our Tachyon sampling engine. There will be natural successors to DS404 and SR202 with serious enhancements released pretty soon - watch out for those Winter NAMM 2005 press releases!

Cheers
Dave

[Z3R0T0N1N]

thanx for the link, Dave!