Wave Alchemy - Triaz Native - No Kontakt -- Free for current owners!

[seangm]

• Export page enhancements with more control over exporting stuff wet vs dry

Thanks for this great plugin, I am really digging it so far. I have one small request regarding the export page that has been causing me confusion (maybe it's just me being stupid). But I get really confused with the midi drag and drop and generating the midi. I find that I need to click the midi button on the "Export" window several times to get it to change to "Generate new midi" state, otherwise it will use midi for the previous sequencer pattern when I drag and drop. I kept dragging the midi to my DAW and it was the old midi pattern not the midi for the current sequencer pattern. I later realized I need to click that button several times for it to generate the midi for the current pattern. So I find that confusing, but again maybe it's just me. I think a solution would be to just have the button default to "Generate midi" when you open the export window. That would avoid any confusion because you would be generating midi based on the current pattern and not having the old midi pattern used for drag and drop if you forget to re-click the button several times. Anyway great plugin and that's just my suggestion for a minor improvement. Thanks.

Hi!

There is a trash can icon at the right of the MIDI export window. use that to clear it

Ah ok, got it thanks. I still think some sort of auto-clearing of the midi drag and drop buffer would help stupid people like myself avoid this potential confusion. It took me a while to figure out why I was getting the old midi every time I did a drag and drop. From my perspective it is more work to have to remember to clear the drag and drop buffer every time I want to export the current sequencer pattern otherwise I end up with the previous pattern midi. Even knowing that I need to clear the buffer it is an extra non-intuitive step that I have to remember whenever I do a drag and drop. Or maybe I'm the only one. But either way I can work with it now.

[wltchris101]

This probably got missed, so, any chance of opening the XY pads to DAW automation please?

In case you missed it, since he didn't quote your message

Every parameter you need is already assignable in Triaz (other than XY pad which we'll add).

Yes, thanks, I did pick that out of his reply to somebody else. I guess he mentioned that on the off chance and not because I'd specifically asked that question.

[Caine123]

strange how my copy protection question gets ignored. gives a good impression !

Its on their web site...you have to be online to activate first time (then internet not required, no dial home)...pretty standard stuff now-a-days.

Full licenses allow you to install your plugin on up to 5 machines simultaneously, pretty generous.

thanks a lot, im always wondering if the company goes out of service etc. i prefer offline activations. need to think about this one, got no experience with Wave Alchemy yet.

A company going out of service has only happened to me once in 20 plus years…that was Camel Audio going Apple. Although I could continue using the products, the lack of updates soon meant they were very dated, low resolution etc. I ultimately you end up loosing use with os changes etc, so I don’t worry about this much…at the end of the day you can have a plug in with no copy protection, but if it isn’t supported and updated it will become obsolete over time. The most important thing to me is trusting the developer is committed to updates and keeping their plugin current….personally I think WA. can be trusted.

thanks good to know, im not fully again online activations and Camel Audio did the right thing, gave everyone who bought it a offline installer and you can use it as long as it gets or you use an older computer for it e.g. win7. NI on the other hand is a f*cking disaster, not offering from disontinued products offline installers. they just rob your legal license. nothing else.

[bmanic]

Okay, so I had to buy this, because it could one day be excellent. As it stands now it's merely "good". Why? Because it's not exactly as flexible as I was hoping for it to be and it's missing quite a few rather critical features. Here are some things I find missing/annoying.

1) I really would like the stereo width control to be per layer and not just found in the channel fx tab. Sometimes when I load samples that are artificially wide I would like to constrain their stereo spread while having some other layer not loose it's width. The only workaround is to load the samples in different channels but this becomes cumbersome and annoying to manage.

2) Attack and Decay desperately need a way to change their shapes. This is especially important for attack when fine tuning samples starts. If ever there was a synth/sampler that could benefit from user adjustable curvature of the envelopes, it is a drum sampler (or synth) as we are constantly fine tuning and working with transient material.

3) Is there really no delay parameter for each sample layer?? How are we supposed to create flams for a layer? Yes, I know there are ratchets in the sequencer but this is not at all the solution nor a workaround. There is a good reason why all the good drum samplers have a delay parameter

TAL Drumsampler has quite a good implementation of all the basics when it comes to the individual sample manipulations. The only thing that is missing is the shaping of envelopes. I hope Wave Alchemy can take a look at it and see how it's done when done properly.

4) Is there really no way to save complete channels with all 3 sample layers and all their settings and then load a whole channel in one go?? Surely I must be missing something here?! It's REALLY tedious to have to load one layer at a time when going through the presets. I was hoping for each preset kit to have the complete channels available to go. Now it's a huge amount of work to rip just the kick part from a preset and use it in my own kit... I MUST be missing something, right?? This can't possibly have gone through beta testing without this feature, right?

5) .. same with Sequencer. Would be nice if every channel had a way to save a preset. UVI Drum designer does this perfectly. This allows the user to save favorite sequences for a particular sound and easily import cool little ideas from the presets.

6) Coarse tune for a sample layers should have at least a -24 to +24 range. An octave up and down seems very limiting. Many 808 type kicks make for excellent percussion sounds when tuned up several octaves and many interesting FX sounds can be made by tuning down hihats and cymbals many octaves. None of this is possible in Triaz.

7) More filter options for the sample layers would be very much appreciated. Again, TAL Drum does this way better by having a separate utility HPF which comes in handy very often. I'd love to have a notch filter and a basic 1 band EQ (where Q knob would become the gain up&down +/- 12dB, center being zero). This would help with getting samples to fit within a layer without having to go through an external editing process first.


These are things I noticed in the first 15 minutes of playing with Triaz. So yeah, while it is quite promising and fun to play with, it's nowhere near being the "best" drum solution nor anywhere even remotely near being "the holy grail we've all been looking for" as some seem to put it. It's.. good but barely. It has a lot of the same pitfalls many other drum solutions have. It feels like it wasn't thought through completely and feels sort of rushed as a product. It's definitely not the tweakers dream come true but rather more of the same "simplified drummachine" trend continuing as it always has been.

Yeah, I agree that the market is sorely missing a "One drum solution to rule them all". Unfortunately Triaz isn't the answer.. yet. I do applaud Wave Alchemy if they indeed do improve upon it in the future and don't just let it decay into mediocrity as so many other companies have done with their drum plugins.

[midi_transmission]

strange how my copy protection question gets ignored. gives a good impression !

Its on their web site...you have to be online to activate first time (then internet not required, no dial home)...pretty standard stuff now-a-days.

Full licenses allow you to install your plugin on up to 5 machines simultaneously, pretty generous.

WA certainly has a user-friendly attitude in general.

But note that you can't deactivate a license. So after 5 activations you have to ask for it. I guess the support will be generous, but be aware of it. I'm still not sure what this means when you sell your macbook. Will the license still be linked to it? So far I got no answer to this question.

[midi_transmission]

I fully understand that, but I believe your customers should not bear the responsibility and be penalized for it. From all other sellers of drum samples, I have always received sample rates of at least 48 kHz. Please provide the same quality to your customers.

Just a few thoughts that might hopefully ease your trouble with it a bit.

Upsampling means just to allow higher frequencies. There is no difference when a recording has no meaningful audio content above 20kHz. Playing such samples with 96kHz samples in a 96kHz project will not sound better than playing such samples with 44khz in a 96khz project when there isn't something wrong technically.

Downsampling on the other hand is a stronger audio modification, because there is a filter involved to limit the frequency range. That can be hearable to some minor extend at lower sampling rates.

I also prefer 48kHz because there is a bit more room to the aliasing filter at 20khz, but more out of theoretical reasons. I think 44kHz is fine. It even might have atvantages, because 48kHz has to be downsampled in 44kHz projects. I even often filter drums above 18kHz to reduce sharpness. High sampling rates have just benefits when you process. But this is independent of the source sample rate of a sample.

As WA said, there might be differences when pitching samples, because samples with 96khz might move content above 20kHz in the hearable range.

Old drum samplers sampled often lower than 44kHz and are still regarded as best sounding for many drum styles because of their artefacts.

It might be interesting to experiment with 96khz pitched recordings of course to bring artefacts in the hearable range. But I think for typical drum machine usage it does probably not matter.

[wave alchemy]

Okay, so I had to buy this, because it could one day be excellent. As it stands now it's merely "good". Why? Because it's not exactly as flexible as I was hoping for it to be and it's missing quite a few rather critical features. Here are some things I find missing/annoying.

1) I really would like the stereo width control to be per layer and not just found in the channel fx tab. Sometimes when I load samples that are artificially wide I would like to constrain their stereo spread while having some other layer not loose it's width. The only workaround is to load the samples in different channels but this becomes cumbersome and annoying to manage.

2) Attack and Decay desperately need a way to change their shapes. This is especially important for attack when fine tuning samples starts. If ever there was a synth/sampler that could benefit from user adjustable curvature of the envelopes, it is a drum sampler (or synth) as we are constantly fine tuning and working with transient material.

3) Is there really no delay parameter for each sample layer?? How are we supposed to create flams for a layer? Yes, I know there are ratchets in the sequencer but this is not at all the solution nor a workaround. There is a good reason why all the good drum samplers have a delay parameter

TAL Drumsampler has quite a good implementation of all the basics when it comes to the individual sample manipulations. The only thing that is missing is the shaping of envelopes. I hope Wave Alchemy can take a look at it and see how it's done when done properly.

4) Is there really no way to save complete channels with all 3 sample layers and all their settings and then load a whole channel in one go?? Surely I must be missing something here?! It's REALLY tedious to have to load one layer at a time when going through the presets. I was hoping for each preset kit to have the complete channels available to go. Now it's a huge amount of work to rip just the kick part from a preset and use it in my own kit... I MUST be missing something, right?? This can't possibly have gone through beta testing without this feature, right?

5) .. same with Sequencer. Would be nice if every channel had a way to save a preset. UVI Drum designer does this perfectly. This allows the user to save favorite sequences for a particular sound and easily import cool little ideas from the presets.

6) Coarse tune for a sample layers should have at least a -24 to +24 range. An octave up and down seems very limiting. Many 808 type kicks make for excellent percussion sounds when tuned up several octaves and many interesting FX sounds can be made by tuning down hihats and cymbals many octaves. None of this is possible in Triaz.

7) More filter options for the sample layers would be very much appreciated. Again, TAL Drum does this way better by having a separate utility HPF which comes in handy very often. I'd love to have a notch filter and a basic 1 band EQ (where Q knob would become the gain up&down +/- 12dB, center being zero). This would help with getting samples to fit within a layer without having to go through an external editing process first.


These are things I noticed in the first 15 minutes of playing with Triaz. So yeah, while it is quite promising and fun to play with, it's nowhere near being the "best" drum solution nor anywhere even remotely near being "the holy grail we've all been looking for" as some seem to put it. It's.. good but barely. It has a lot of the same pitfalls many other drum solutions have. It feels like it wasn't thought through completely and feels sort of rushed as a product. It's definitely not the tweakers dream come true but rather more of the same "simplified drummachine" trend continuing as it always has been.

Yeah, I agree that the market is sorely missing a "One drum solution to rule them all". Unfortunately Triaz isn't the answer.. yet. I do applaud Wave Alchemy if they indeed do improve upon it in the future and don't just let it decay into mediocrity as so many other companies have done with their drum plugins.

Hi,

If you like Tal Drum and are happy with it, then by all means continue using it. Triaz is maybe not for you, and we do offer a 14-day refund which you can take us up on if required

All the features you have suggested here could be implemented within a day or two (we also already have some of the features you asked for). Very basic stuff, but if you were to read our roadmap on a previous page you will see that we are prioritizing more interesting / highly requested features first. But to answer your points:

1. This would be incredibly trivial to add and could be done likely in a few minutes since we already have the code for it. Not ruling this out completely, but we also don't want to oversaturate the plugin with an endless sea of knobs, which in turn makes it far slower to use and overcomplicated.

3. Yes, this is coming in an update as already mentioned.

4. Yes, save / load entire channels is already available in the plugin. As is copy / paste (with or without sequence data), swap channels etc, retrig time etc.

5. Should be very easy to add and I already have this written in my list of ideal features. I'll see if this can be pushed forward and included with our smart sequencer update as described in our roadmap.

6. Very easy to add, but we omitted this since it generally sounds bad IMO when pitching drums by more than an octave.

7. The only difference I see in Tal is that they have a separate HP filter. See previous roadmap. We plan to add more filter types.

I'll leave this post by asking a question. Could you recreate complex beats quickly, with the same depth, complexity. movement and sound quality as many of the presets in Triaz with any other modern drum plugin offerings, without using several 3rd party plugins, complex automations, hundreds of $ worth of sample packs? In Triaz this is very easy.

This is one of (if not the) main draw of Triaz and why so many people are enjoying it. I have been programming beats for over 20 years, and I have owned or used every software drum machine available during that time. I have never been able to create anything like this directly in other solutions without hours of faffing around with routings, using annoyingly slow UX, page turning, tons of 3rd party plugins, separate sequencer and automations, mastering chain, etc. This is why we made Triaz. We did lots of testing by trying to achieve the same thing with Logic Drum Machine and the Logic sequencer / automation, and it took a lot longer to achieve results anywhere close - same with other solutions we tested

[wave alchemy]

I'm still not sure what this means when you sell your macbook. Will the license still be linked to it? So far I got no answer to this question.

You'd simply ask us to delicense it, or simply wait for us to add that feature

[midi_transmission]

I'm still not sure what this means when you sell your macbook. Will the license still be linked to it? So far I got no answer to this question.

You'd simply ask us to delicense it, or simply wait for us to add that feature

[wltchris101]

2) Attack and Decay desperately need a way to change their shapes. This is especially important for attack when fine tuning samples starts. If ever there was a synth/sampler that could benefit from user adjustable curvature of the envelopes, it is a drum sampler (or synth) as we are constantly fine tuning and working with transient material.

In your answer to bmanic, you left out a response to number 2. I agree that the envelopes could perhaps do with a curve parameter for attack and decay.

[Kappa_Beta_Hi-Phi]

It's a goof instrument in a space that has been sorely lacking for 10 years plus now. It doesn't touch Geist right now but it has a shot at being a contender IMO. It's worth being exited about.

The Dev seems to not want to alienate his market and I guess there is this image of the "Beatmaker" producer who is dumb as rocks or on the younger side and who could be driven away from complexity? Their bread and butter is the sample pack market so they know what their customer wants but hopefully they can find away to accommodate both? Hopefully they aren't underestimating their customers either.

Any devs out there, for the love of God make a Geist clone.

[Bjørnson]

One other thing I forgot that may be easier to implement - hot key shortcuts. Like for switching between sound and sequence mode and then switching between the drum sounds ...

I would also love a short key in Triaz to switch fast between the Sound / Sequencer — the distance to the toggle via mouse is always far ...

And maybe also short keys (← →) to flip fast between drum channels and keys to change the views: Mixer / Channel FX / Send FX / Master FX

Also, a percussive jazz brush extension like Soniccouture Moonkits would be a splendid add on.

[bmanic]

If you like Tal Drum and are happy with it, then by all means continue using it. Triaz is maybe not for you, and we do offer a 14-day refund which you can take us up on if required

Oh no, I'm not in the habit of refunding things. I did research Triaz enough to justify the purchase.

All the features you have suggested here could be implemented within a day or two (we also already have some of the features you asked for). Very basic stuff, but if you were to read our roadmap on a previous page you will see that we are prioritizing more interesting / highly requested features first. But to answer your points:

1. This would be incredibly trivial to add and could be done likely in a few minutes since we already have the code for it. Not ruling this out completely, but we also don't want to oversaturate the plugin with an endless sea of knobs, which in turn makes it far slower to use and overcomplicated.

This is a matter of UI design. For instance, it could be a tiny extra slider right above or below the pan slider (where it often resides in various DAWs). It is however a super useful and simple feature.

Using the old "we don't want to add too many controls" is not a good excuse, especially not when the plugin is being hyped up to be the end-all/be-all drum thing (you yourself said that you wanted to develop it as nothing else has had the features you wanted).

3. Yes, this is coming in an update as already mentioned.

Awesome!

4. Yes, save / load entire channels is already available in the plugin. As is copy / paste (with or without sequence data), swap channels etc, retrig time etc.

Ah yes! Found it. It's the 3 dots menu thing.

5. Should be very easy to add and I already have this written in my list of ideal features. I'll see if this can be pushed forward and included with our smart sequencer update as described in our roadmap.

Awesome to hear!

6. Very easy to add, but we omitted this since it generally sounds bad IMO when pitching drums by more than an octave.

The whole point of the extreme pitching is to explore new territory. Pitching samples many octaves in general is nothing new.. I ain't after "realism" here, just exploring new territory.

7. The only difference I see in Tal is that they have a separate HP filter. See previous roadmap. We plan to add more filter types.

Yes and that single separate HPF is extremely useful. It's there for a very good reason.

I'll leave this post by asking a question. Could you recreate complex beats quickly, with the same depth, complexity. movement and sound quality as many of the presets in Triaz with any other modern drum plugin offerings, without using several 3rd party plugins, complex automations, hundreds of $ worth of sample packs? In Triaz this is very easy.

Yes you can. Triaz is actually quite similar to UVI's Drum designer.. though Drum Designer is way more in-depth when it comes to the actual sound design, whereas Triaz has the more flexible sequencer. As for quality of samples, that is completely subjective so I won't comment on that. Drum samples in general are a dime a dozen sort of thing. You need to spend literally no money at all and you can have a library of thousands of quality samples. This ain't the 90s when ready made sampling material was rare or hard to come by.

This is one of (if not the) main draw of Triaz and why so many people are enjoying it. I have been programming beats for over 20 years, and I have owned or used every software drum machine available during that time. I have never been able to create anything like this directly in other solutions without hours of faffing around with routings, using annoyingly slow UX, page turning, tons of 3rd party plugins, separate sequencer and automations, mastering chain, etc. This is why we made Triaz. We did lots of testing by trying to achieve the same thing with Logic Drum Machine and the Logic sequencer / automation, and it took a lot longer to achieve results anywhere close - same with other solutions we tested

Haven't used Logic much lately but for instance FL Studio provides pretty much everything you could ever possibly need for your drum needs and is of course way more flexible than Triaz. The downside is that using FL Studio as a plugin is cumbersome, so that rules out using it in another DAW (and my current go-to is Reaper at the moment).

Don't get me wrong though, Triaz has the potential of being exceptional but I have a feeling you are slightly underestimating what some of us would like a drum machine to do, especially one that tries to do it all. This is why the actual sound design aspect of each channel/track/pad or whatever you want to call it, is in big focus in my initial post. Personally I don't much care for sequencers as they are never going to be competing against the DAW itself. The sound manipulation and design aspect is usually what either makes or breaks the plugin in my case. The way Triaz does the layering is really nice and quick to use though it has some downsides too (can't do velocity sensitive layers or more than 3 so that rules out some things).

While I have your attention, here are a few more feature requests/issues:

1) Tweaking the volume of the channels is very much prone to immediately snap the level. Basically what I'm trying to say here is that it's not easy to tweak the level sliders of the mixer without having them immediately snap to some value. The sliders should NOT move immediately upon mouse click.. instead it should let the user grab the slider and only move when I move the mouse. This is quite frustrating to use when you want to make really small fine adjustments.

Also it would be nice if the currently set level readout popped up when you hover the mouse over the slider for a second of two. Now the only way to see the level it is set at is to click the slider, which in turn of course almost always makes it jump a tenth or two in a seemingly random direction.

2) Where is the polarity switch for the sample layers? I can't find one.

3) While the novel new EQ is cool and all, I would also like the option to turn it into the more traditional EQ you have in the master section.

Anyhow, like I said. I DO LIKE Triaz, a lot. Heck in the few hours I've had with the thing I've already come up with the start of a little track (Google Drive, mp3 1.9mb).

[Funky40]

2) Attack and Decay desperately need a way to change their shapes. This is especially important for attack when fine tuning samples starts. If ever there was a synth/sampler that could benefit from user adjustable curvature of the envelopes, it is a drum sampler (or synth) as we are constantly fine tuning and working with transient material.

In your answer to bmanic, you left out a response to number 2. I agree that the envelopes could perhaps do with a curve parameter for attack and decay.

+1 !!

i´m in the same boat as @bmanic. I just had to buy it after a short test of the demo, since it seems to have potential. I have not spent enough time to comment on the envelopes vs. Triaz directly.

But i can comment vs. newer Elektron Boxes:
The digitakt was such a disapointment vs. its envelopes.
The completly unrefined range and access to envelope-adjustment rendered it a Toy for me.
DT is a great box, but you can´t take it above a certain point.
We, the "consumers" spend thousands of thousands of $, just to see that the devs, quasi everywhere, are overlooking way too often some small details, that *just count*.

for anything percussion ARE the envelopes just THAT THING.
It´s the most determing factor above anything else.
I really hope that you @wave alchemy will give this, point 2) some thought and love.


not moaning ! i really don´t know how good Triaz is on this.
I just wanted to put some weight down vs. the "Envelopes are important" aspect !
Since Triaz looks right now llike the upcoming thing.
( and i need to look out for a drumthing -with Sequenzer- that i can settle upon)

+ 1 vs. bmanics save requests vs. single tracks and the sequenzer lines of single tracks !
As has been phrased out by him.
That would be really nice to have. Make all the work we put in accessible as sort of a modular construction kit. I´d not underestimate the power of this aspect.

hey, and thanks for listening ! @wave alchemy

[Raddler1]

Tried the Triaz demo. It's good, but I would still happily use Geist 1 instead. Triaz feels overwhelming with all the different pages and mouse click jumping around. One minute at the sound page, next at the browser, next at the sequencer, then back to the browser, oops I clicked on the preset selector tab instead of the sample browser, where do I want to go again? Oh yeah, back to the sequencer, but I can't change my drum sample from that page, ok then, I'll just use the drum randomizer, but that's on the sound page.

The beauty for me with Geist 1 was the smooth, simple interface. Browser, sequencer, pads, change samples all on one page.