Do Linux users tend to be somewhat paranoid?

[midi_transmission]

But I think many have similar thoughts. Perhaps even stronger than mine, because they think about these things and about how it shapes the future.

[audiojunkie]

Apologies for the clickbait title, but I've concluded that most people here expressing concerns or engaging in debates about licensing, copy protection systems for plugins, or speculating on the fate of a company going out of service, etc., as well as those worrying about the compatibility of a 50-years old sample library with a contemporary Kontakt version, tend to be predominantly Linux users. Could this be accurate, or am I mistaken? It's just an observation on my part.

I don't know if I'd say "Linux users tend to be Paranoid". There are plenty of users of all three major OSes that don't like challenge/response. There are many more who draw the line at subscriptions--I'd even be willing to say that that fits the description of "most" users here at KVR and elsewhere. However, there is a nugget of truth --linux users do tend to be a bit different from users of other OSes. Most linux users adhere (some more than others) to certain ideologies. Whether that be the desire to avoid big tech and its telemetry (where if it's free, you can be assured that YOU are the product), or the desire to not be told what one can or can not do with one's own computer, or whether that person buys into the Open Source values, or if a person likes the benefits of the extra flexibility, or whatever etc., etc., there's lots of ideological reasons. Also, Linux users tend to be more willing to "get their hands dirty" and dig into the OS and configure it to be what they want to be. Linux users tend to be more comfortable and savvy with computers and technology. We ARE a bit different. However, paranoid is not a word I would use to describe Linux users. Many of use are older. I've personally be on KVR for over 20 years. It is entirely possible that some users may not have been born at the time that I joined KVR. There are a lot of us here that have been around for a long, long time. We have seen example after example over the years where challenge/response software authorization has burned people with no recourse. We've had companies using challenge/response go out of business without warning and left users unable to authenticate their software. We've had times when copy protection was so buried into low level systems that they caused system instability for the user. We've had times where the number of authentications exceeded the given number, and the customer was left with the option to repurchase or not use the software. N.I. nearly stranded plugin users recently with older software. The good news is that for the most part, the companies have managed to resolve a large portion of these problems--not everyone gets screwed, and often there is a happy ending. However, understand that coming from the Linux ideological background that many of us come from, we find it extremely frustrating that the honest purchasers of these company's software plugins are made to jump through more hoops and essentially punished (by having to deal with horrible copy protection) for being honest, while pirates simply go to a website and download these same plugins with the copy protection removed. That rubs many of us the wrong way. It rubs ME the wrong way. I purposely moved away from all of that for the freedom of Linux several years ago, and have been a constant supporter of developers that provide copy protection that doesn't hassle me, the paying customer. Developers such as U-he, Tal-software, Audio Damage, Loomer, Audiothing, etc. will always have my support, because they don't punish me--the customer. Now, you may want to call that paranoid, but I don't see it that way. Honestly, I'm to old to care what anyone thinks about me anyway. But that's my take on all of this. I hope this helps provide some insight into the minds of us paranoid Linux users.

[audiojunkie]

Still running Windows 95 in a Faraday cage. I don't trust dodgy Linux.

You do you! Don't worry about what we users of that "dodgy" Linux OS think.

[audiojunkie]

Or perhaps just tired of jumping hoops to keep a running system?

That would be the last reason for me to install Linux. Actually, it rather resembled jumping through hoops to get or keep things running in the past.

But then, the Linuxers often forget that. Gift horse.

Hehehe!!! I somehow knew you'd show up to give your opinion--just like you probably knew I would show up to give mine. It's OK. We've chatted before. I know you have some Linux experience and a lot of it has been bad. I don't fault you on that at all. But as I said once before, things have changed greatly in the last 5 years. Things are SO much better than they used to be. There are less hoops to jump through than there used to be, while at the same time, there are all of the benefits still there--especially the flexibility and freedom. I'm bound and determined to get you to become one of us someday. In the meantime, I still wish you the best!

[audiojunkie]

I thought Linux software was portable and they had to install dependencies for it to work.

Linux software IS portable. And dependencies DO have to be installed to make programs work. But there is one thing that is different from all other OSes--Linux is not one single OS. Linux is in actuality more than 600+ similarly created OSes that use much of the same libraries, but yet contain many differences that if not handled correctly could put a system into dependency hell (it's the same for Windows and Apple, although not nearly as serious because there aren't 600+ different Windows or Apple oses). While Apple, and even Microsoft have found solutions to their dependency hell problem, it wasn't until fairly recently that Linux found solutions to get around dependency hell--and not only for one distribution, but for any distro, even if there are a million of them. The solutions come in the form of sandboxing and separation. Through tools such as Flatpak, Snap, Appimage, and now the especially cool Distrobox, dependency hell is over for Linux. In fact, with Distrobox, you can run any number of distros safely on top of your main distro ( and yet be fully integrated as if it was part of the same OS). With Distrobox, it doesn't matter what distro you choose for your main OS, you can use Distrobox to use any app in existence in the Linux world on any base distro of your choice. As I'm mentioned in the past. Things have changed so, so much in the world of Linux in just a short span of a few years. None of this was possible as recently as just five years ago. The Linux world is exploding with activity and so much is going on and so much is changing, that it is an absolute thrill to see what's new on a daily basis.

[mevla]

Still running Windows 95 in a Faraday cage. I don't trust dodgy Linux.

Which Linux ? Or did you meant the kernel and basic software as per LFS ?

[mevla]

Or perhaps just tired of jumping hoops to keep a running system? Paranoia nah! old yep.

This is what I mean. Have you had bad experiences with previous systems, or do Linux users typically prioritize security and privacy more than users of other operating systems?

For 99% of people using Linux, they had to enter a password to get to the system when there was no such thing in Windows at that same period of time, and it was started to be introduced in high-end NTFS Windows-NT systems.

Today everyone and their aunts and uncles are entering a password to gain access to their computer device of any kind.

There's an actual physical and historical reason why (network) security is an actual important matter in Linux.

[BONES]

I don't. Password protection is entirely optional in Windows. My PC just starts and goes straight to the desktop.

Apologies for the clickbait title, but I've concluded that most people here expressing concerns or engaging in debates about licensing, copy protection systems for plugins, or speculating on the fate of a company going out of service, etc., as well as those worrying about the compatibility of a 50-years old sample library with a contemporary Kontakt version, tend to be predominantly Linux users. Could this be accurate, or am I mistaken? It's just an observation on my part.

I reckon they're just mostly wankers.

Use what works best for you, don't for a minute think yours are the only experiences people have with Linux.

I'd suggest they may not be unique but are probably indicative of how the majority would see it. If it were otherwise, we'd all have made the switch decades ago.

Suffice to say, all I was learning with most updates was that there was some new feature added I had to find out how to disable.

Like what? I hate Microsoft more than most but I don't think this is a valid criticism, unless I am misunderstanding something. The reality for me is that Windows is the only OS that supports all the applications I want to use, so I put up with it because it allows me to get my work done.

That said, I still find it a superior experience to either macOS or Linux, or I did before Windows 11, which is a typical two-steps-forward-one-step-back Windows upgrade, where they give you a few things you've been begging for for ages and take away something you rely on every day. But $10 got me my Start Menu back so it's hardly the end of the world.

I thought Linux software was portable and they had to install dependencies for it to work.

It can be but it doesn't have to be. You can install it properly like Windows. But unless you build your own kernel, it's not going to be any more efficient than other OSes. If you just do a standard install, it will be as bloated as Windows or macOS.

I'm tired of dealing with overly restrictive copy protection, I don't want to think about if I may lose access to products I've bought, and I don't want to be at the mercy of a support team. I want products with a long lifetime.

So don't think about it, I don't. What about all the 32 bit plugins you had to leave behind when you went to 64 bit? You can't cover every contingency, things will invariably stop working eventually.

Some copy protection schemes are working against these goals.

None that I've experienced. Quite the opposite, I've found copy protection to be the easiest thing in the world. In 20-odd years I've never had the tiniest problem with a plugin not working because of it. e.g. It has to be 10 years or more since Orion was officially dead but it keeps working for me and all the 32 bit plugins I used with it still work on my new Windows 11 computer, too. That's not something I'd be able to say if I switched to Linux. I'd have to draw a line under it and basically start again. No, thanks.

When people accept everything, it will constantly shift further and some years later you have to accept things that you would not buy some years back, because it's silently accepted and you have no choice.

My experience is that when I finally relented, as with iLok, that I realised what a complete f**king idiot I'd been and how much easier my life could have been if I'd been a little less stupid and made the leap years earlier.

Remember how it is with Adobe. I don't want this kind of model in the audio world.

I have to say that their subscription model isn't even close to the thing I hate most about Adobe and their half-arsed products.

[mevla]

THE HONEST ARE HASSLED, NOT THE PIRATES.

And there could be a good reason for that if ever there's a convergence of renewable self-sovereign digital identity, leasing all you need for living, and having access to everything provided by computers, like currency, using the car, the phone, computer, etc, etc. Oh and I forgot, while being happy during all that time.

If there's a convergence then there could be a single entry point to allow/disallow the use of services based on the results of the periodic renewal of the certification of the self-sovereign identity, and possibly other social criteria.

The above is not pure editorial. It's actually based on events that can be observed.

"The Three Pillars of Self-Sovereign Identity"

https://www.evernym.com/blog/the-three- ... -identity/

"Guardianship"

https://sovrin.org/guardianship/

Linux Foundation, "Trust over IP"

https://trustoverip.org/

"Sovrin and Trust over IP Signed Mutual Agreement to Strengthen Their SSI Collaboration"

https://sovrin.org/sovrin-and-trust-ove ... agreement/

[mevla]

I don't. Password protection is entirely optional in Windows. My PC just starts and goes straight to the desktop.

An individual case is what it is, an individual case.

The core of it is that at a time when there were no passwords for Windows systems, there were passwords for all Linux systems. People using Windows would from time to time frown or ridicule at that extra 'useless' step Linux users had to do.

[mevla]

Are device drivers still provided today for simple MIDI hardware in order to run in Windows ? At least they were for quite some time. When getting some M-Audio hardware to run on Linux I remember throwing away that device driver CD since they were not needed at all in Linux, the interface already being included in a full-featured kernel.

Having to use a device driver CD to get simple MIDI hardware working did not prevent Windows users to brag about how much simple it was to use Windows.

[FranklyFlawless]

Could this be accurate, or am I mistaken?

Start a poll to collect data. That being said, if you need a reminder of how many companies have come and gone by throughout the years of KVR Audio, check out the general activity on the Official Company Forums.

See also:

Source Code? - S3A: Spatial Audio Forum - KVR Audio

[FrettedSynth]

To the people who insist that audio can't be done on Linux. Is it because there is software you absolutely need that will not run in Linux?
Linux for me is not about free software, if it's good I need and runs on Linux I will buy. Have bought quite few WinVst's that do just that on my system. I don't even know the plugin is bridged once installed. Thanks to some kind developers have bought many that run on all three OS'es.

So I say Vst32, Vst64, Vst3, Vst3i, clap, clapi, Lv2, Lv2i, jsfx etc. Lol for kicks even tested an old Dx plugin, it ran
If it sounds good and I have a need for it, bring it on. No idea why most have problems with Linux.

[mothra]

Are device drivers still provided today for simple MIDI hardware in order to run in Windows ? At least they were for quite some time. When getting some M-Audio hardware to run on Linux I remember throwing away that device driver CD since they were not needed at all in Linux, the interface already being included in a full-featured kernel.

Having to use a device driver CD to get simple MIDI hardware working did not prevent Windows users to brag about how much simple it was to use Windows.

That's because the M-Audio devs put those out there, just like someone inside Apple (or eMagic depending on when it was done), let out the Unitor drivers, so those are now included in the kernel. My MOTU 828MK2 worked in Linux, because someone made drivers for it. They didn't magically just work when plugged in, if someone hadn't contributed those drivers, all of those devices would be just as dead in the water as they are on Windows/MacOS without the drivers.

And yes, 'class compliant' devices should work across all three platforms, if they are truly 'class compliant' and follow the USB standards. Then you run into folks like MOTU who's 'class compliance' only extends to MacOS and iOS, meaning its not really 'class compliant' it just defaults to Apples reference CoreAudio driver if it doesn't find its own proprietary driver installed. And even Apple themselves with things like third party touch screens, that work without a hitch on Windows/Linux, but require drivers on a Mac because Apple doesn't want you using a touch display if its not an iPhone or iPad..

[3lu5iv3]

i'm a distrohopper and i'm not parannoid.