# To dither, or not to dither?

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irpacynot wrote: Thu Feb 22, 2024 1:05 am [...] everything at 48khz [...] they do 44.1 [...]
That is the sampling rate. Dithering is only about bit depth.
Wikipedia has a nice illustration which is about graphics / photos, but the same principles apply to audio
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dither
Look at the neck of the cat in the middle image:
We are the KVR collective. Resistance is futile. You will be assimilated.
My MusicCalc is served over https!!

BertKoor wrote: Thu Feb 22, 2024 1:19 am
irpacynot wrote: Thu Feb 22, 2024 1:05 am [...] everything at 48khz [...] they do 44.1 [...]
That is the sampling rate. Dithering is only about bit depth.
Wikipedia has a nice illustration which is about graphics / photos, but the same principles apply to audio
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dither
Look at the neck of the cat in the middle image:
Ah, sorry. I forgot. Well, then in that case, I'm guessing it will be of little consideration to me.

That being said, I appreciate the image, as it makes clear the value of the process. I now wanna check out my video software and see if it offers such an option.

irpacynot wrote: Thu Feb 22, 2024 1:05 am
soundmodel wrote: Wed Feb 21, 2024 11:10 pm I guess the true answer is:

You need to listen to both and then decide whether the non-dithered quantization error sounds worse or better than the applied dither. The dither is meant to mask large errors in the quantization error.
And I'll be honest, I've tried to compare, but I couldn't tell you for sure if I truly noticed a difference (with dithering on or off). I seem highly susceptible to fooling myself with regards to such subtle changes.
Well in that case it probably then does not matter. In some other cases it does.

To understand the real world effects of dithering, install TAL DAC or the free Kiloheartz kHz Bitcrush.

Try different bit depths with dithering enabled. You don’t really notice a difference until you start getting below 16-bit. That’s because 16-bit was chosen specifically because it is the lowest bit depth that can still capture the smallest change in volume perceptible to the human ear.

If you were making 8 or 12-bit samples for a ROMpler in the 1980s, or a 12-bit digital delay, then dithering would make a difference. But if you’re dithering 24-bit to a final 16-bit output, then there’s not going to be any meaningful difference.
THIS MUSIC HAS BEEN MIXED TO BE PLAYED LOUD SO TURN IT UP

legendCNCD wrote: Wed Feb 14, 2024 5:24 am
BertKoor wrote: Tue Feb 13, 2024 11:54 pm It depends, but it's really simple:
• Export to 8bit WAV: bro, why...
Because it sounds better with fuller samples like pads. Do not dither bass samples when using 8bit.
I mainly do this for samples going to Amiga, for use with Protracker. Also for saving space on Fasttracker...

Really depends on the sound itself though in the end.
This post seems coming from the 90s

Jac459 wrote: Thu Feb 22, 2024 4:34 pm
legendCNCD wrote: Wed Feb 14, 2024 5:24 am
BertKoor wrote: Tue Feb 13, 2024 11:54 pm It depends, but it's really simple:
• Export to 8bit WAV: bro, why...
Because it sounds better with fuller samples like pads. Do not dither bass samples when using 8bit.
I mainly do this for samples going to Amiga, for use with Protracker. Also for saving space on Fasttracker...

Really depends on the sound itself though in the end.
This post seems coming from the 90s
Still using Amiga, Protracker etc. here
Soft Knees - Live 12, Diva, Omnisphere, Slate Digital VSX, TDR, Kush Audio, U-He, PA, Valhalla, Fuse, Pulsar, NI, OekSound etc. on Win11Pro R7950X & RME AiO Pro
https://www.youtube.com/@softknees/videos Music & Demoscene

legendCNCD wrote: Fri Feb 23, 2024 1:44 am
Jac459 wrote: Thu Feb 22, 2024 4:34 pm
legendCNCD wrote: Wed Feb 14, 2024 5:24 am
BertKoor wrote: Tue Feb 13, 2024 11:54 pm It depends, but it's really simple:
• Export to 8bit WAV: bro, why...
Because it sounds better with fuller samples like pads. Do not dither bass samples when using 8bit.
I mainly do this for samples going to Amiga, for use with Protracker. Also for saving space on Fasttracker...

Really depends on the sound itself though in the end.
This post seems coming from the 90s
Still using Amiga, Protracker etc. here
Ohhh! Incredible!
Is there still a scene for that? Use to spend days sound that instead of studying.

Just googled: latest delivery on protracker was 28 years ago ... I wonder if it support CLAP format

I did Dither. But now I see the place I up my tunes to takes FLAC format. So now that nasty conversion from 48 to 44.1 doesn't have to happen. I also think it depends on what you use. I've used plugins that through up a nasty alias noise and Dither helps. I haven't run across this in years but it used to happen.

Dithering has no relevance to sample rate. Dithering does not improve aliasing. Working at higher sample rates and/or oversampling reduces aliasing.
THIS MUSIC HAS BEEN MIXED TO BE PLAYED LOUD SO TURN IT UP

Exactly.

Jac459 wrote: Fri Feb 23, 2024 3:17 am
legendCNCD wrote: Fri Feb 23, 2024 1:44 am
Jac459 wrote: Thu Feb 22, 2024 4:34 pm
legendCNCD wrote: Wed Feb 14, 2024 5:24 am
BertKoor wrote: Tue Feb 13, 2024 11:54 pm It depends, but it's really simple:
• Export to 8bit WAV: bro, why...
Because it sounds better with fuller samples like pads. Do not dither bass samples when using 8bit.
I mainly do this for samples going to Amiga, for use with Protracker. Also for saving space on Fasttracker...

Really depends on the sound itself though in the end.
This post seems coming from the 90s
Still using Amiga, Protracker etc. here
Ohhh! Incredible!
Is there still a scene for that? Use to spend days sound that instead of studying.

Just googled: latest delivery on protracker was 28 years ago ... I wonder if it support CLAP format
https://16-bits.org/ has the tracker clones of the two most used, and yeah, still Amiga games and demos are released
Soft Knees - Live 12, Diva, Omnisphere, Slate Digital VSX, TDR, Kush Audio, U-He, PA, Valhalla, Fuse, Pulsar, NI, OekSound etc. on Win11Pro R7950X & RME AiO Pro
https://www.youtube.com/@softknees/videos Music & Demoscene

The most recent bugfix release for the original Fast Tracker II was in 2022, and for the original ProTracker in 2023

legendCNCD wrote: Sat Feb 24, 2024 6:25 am https://16-bits.org/ has the tracker clones of the two most used, and yeah, still Amiga games and demos are released
Awesome! I still remember Sid&Alphatron demo music...
Memories memories... Should be a dedicated thread...