Do Linux users tend to be somewhat paranoid?

VST, AU, AAX, CLAP, etc. Plugin Virtual Instruments Discussion
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I should add that Urs Heckman, who rolled the dice on linux support, found the talented fellow in charge of the ports, was also developing a whole new plugin standard, the open and extensible CLAP. Bitwig also liked linux, also like CLAP, and teamed up. So there are heavy-hitters benefitting from their early adoptions, with more to come. I have several CLAP plugins, they all work fine, and although plugin capabilities are mainly over my head, eventually I'll find and use some preset putting them to good advantage. I even discovered the sundry aftertouch capabilities of my controller :scared:
Cheers

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BONES wrote: Fri Feb 23, 2024 10:09 pm Just off the top of my head, I'd suggest it's because he's a Live user and doesn't want to spend Dog knows how many hours/days/weeks/months porting all his songs across to a new DAW.
Typical and true, daw gui's are unique, and mastering more than one takes $time$. I think having basic capabilities in multiple daws is important, for luck sake, and more if rubbing elbows with local musicians and studios.

FocusRite have acknowledged and helped a linux dev support many of their recent products, and there is a good linux editor as well. There are many 'class compliant' audio hardwares that work fine, but one must be willing to acquire known compatible hardware, before the linux software is useful. Mac users will know the scenario well, if on a more expensive plane. As will driver-hunters for some windows used-gear shoppers.
Cheers

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audiojunkie wrote: Sat Feb 24, 2024 12:42 pm using Flatpak, Appimages, or Snaps
Not an area I'm familiar with, so I may be swayed by screenshots of A/V apps in working scenarios. I think some video tools are among them? I doubt many crucial audio apps are in those categories, the one I tried was a trainwreck, and deleted in the second minute :wink:

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I've been waiting for 30 yrs for linux to become practical for me. I continue to wait... :shrug:

*The issue for me is 100 % about the availability of commercial SW.

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glokraw wrote: Sat Feb 24, 2024 1:38 pm
audiojunkie wrote: Sat Feb 24, 2024 12:42 pm using Flatpak, Appimages, or Snaps
Not an area I'm familiar with, so I may be swayed by screenshots of A/V apps in working scenarios. I think some video tools are among them?
For instance, Shotcut :

https://shotcut.org/

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mevla wrote: All creations I've made so far were created in Bitwig and mixed/mastered in Mixbus32C. It's basically two different approaches. I was made aware of this when I mentioned on a Wednesday evening some time ago at a "Mixing with Mike" session : there are two kinds of DAWs and thus two different users. One is preferring a hardware metaphor, the mixer console, as a basis for a DAW while others are preferring DAWs that explores other paradigms. A mixer user will basically see no use in a DAW offering a modular synth. It wouldn't be a looked-after feature. This is what's neat in using Bitwig for creation and Mixbus32C for mixing : I could change hats and become a mixer that was given a set of tracks to mix well.

I consider it contributed to create proper conditions for the Muse to manifest :)

Cheers.
Just to add an aside on this point you're making here.

Some pro mixers might want tracks or stems exported for them to import into their DAW of choice where they have templates to help them mix, but quite a few pro mixers will just start with the mix that they get from the client using the DAW the project came in. E.g. if the project is in Ableton they'll start there.

For me, for my own tracks/mixes, I just don't see the point of adding an extra step of exporting and using a second DAW to mix. It's a whole lot of extra time, and adds hoops to jump through if you wanted to go back and make any changes later e.g. sometimes I'll be happy with a mix, but one sound isn't quite right.

Fair play if it works for you, but for me, I think it's much better to tidy up the structure, track groupings and part colours and just continue in the same DAW (Bitwig). I have some great templates in cubase, but the over head is too much to make it worthwhile for me.

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_leras wrote: Sat Feb 24, 2024 2:06 pm Fair play if it works for you, but for me, I think it's much better to tidy up the structure, track groupings and part colours and just continue in the same DAW (Bitwig). I have some great templates in cubase, but the over head is too much to make it worthwhile for me.
The DAW, Harrison Mixbus32C, can be considered an audio FX by itself. It has a digital reproduction of the 32C EQ used by Harrison on their mixing consoles, which were used by many well-known commercial artists. It's like adding automatically a FX processing on all imported tracks. This said, I'm only using Bitwig now since I added a Launchpad to the setup.

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glokraw wrote: Sat Feb 24, 2024 11:56 am The whole point of distributions and libs is to massively increase the ability to have your own desired computer experience, as opposed to a pair of corporate roll-outs. With mac/win, you're stuck with what they give you, and enhancements* you add. Choice of 'distributions' is limited to to a dozen or so versions, aging between dire insecurity, and corporate data harvesting.
I think you'll find probably 99% of people don't want to customise their own experience, but just want the OS to stay out of the way and be as seamless and no time consuming as possible.

Most time is spent using applications that are going to be pretty similar whatever the platform.

If you do want things like multiple desktops, customised start up menus, colour schemes, etc on windows it very easy.

Maybe I'm missing something on what you mean by 'have your own desired computer experience'. Interested to know what this means to you.

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25 odd years ago I was a champion for Linux. Ferrying a carrier-bag of 3.5 inch floppies home from the college, etc. I remember throwing shapes when I got audio and CDs to work.

These days I just plain can't be f**ked with it unless I'm setting up a server. It's archaic and all the bandaids like Flatpak... I just can't be bothered. Too much hassle for zero gain.

I'm amazed you guys have the energy.
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"Hell is other People" J.P.Sartre
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Time to change the thread title to;
"Why are Apple/Windows users paranoid of Linux?"

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revvy wrote: Sat Feb 24, 2024 10:17 am confused-2-ezgif.com-webp-to-jpg-converter.jpg
Why are you posting a selfie?
Win 10 with Ryzen 5950x, Bitwig 5, too many plugins, Novation Circuit Mono Station and now a lovely Waldorf Blofeld.

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_leras wrote: Sat Feb 24, 2024 2:24 pm
glokraw wrote: Sat Feb 24, 2024 11:56 am The whole point of distributions and libs is to massively increase the ability to have your own desired computer experience, as opposed to a pair of corporate roll-outs. With mac/win, you're stuck with what they give you, and enhancements* you add. Choice of 'distributions' is limited to to a dozen or so versions, aging between dire insecurity, and corporate data harvesting.
I think you'll find probably 99% of people don't want to customise their own experience, but just want the OS to stay out of the way and be as seamless and no time consuming as possible.

Most time is spent using applications that are going to be pretty similar whatever the platform.

If you do want things like multiple desktops, customised start up menus, colour schemes, etc on windows it very easy.

Maybe I'm missing something on what you mean by 'have your own desired computer experience'. Interested to know what this means to you.
There can be a few major differences in how multiple desktops operate and use a mouse or keys. And how a desktop's contents can be dealt with. Distros and Desktop environments often have different default apps, default settings, and selection of system libs and dependencies. Config files offer more differences, as well as repository versions, and use of PPA repositories. Wine versions vary wildly, a big issue, as well as graphic libs, kernels, kernel modules, boot managers, login managers, sundry permissions, subsystems like Security Linux and System D. The way audio i/o arrives is yet another thing to consider. Lastly, when the _hit hit's the fan, linux is simple to replicate, including authorized products residing in a single .wine folder, easy to back up. I want a have a diverse selection of utilities to choose, from a centralized location
that is the same every time, and easily updated. So the package manager is a firstline factor deciding what dostro to use. I want things I use often, to be special, and as close to being the best, as my budget allows.

It's obvious that great things are accomplished in mac/win setups, and I couldn't speak to the ease of use anyone else has or hopes to have. If as you say, most people stick close to defaults, I can only hope they are as happy as I am when creating music.
Cheers

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_leras wrote: Sat Feb 24, 2024 2:24 pm I think you'll find probably 99% of people don't want to customise their own experience, but just want the OS to stay out of the way and be as seamless and no time consuming as possible.
In your wildest dreams, you really belive mac/win OS's and hardware 'stay out of the way'? :dog: :roll:

'Bartender! I'll have three of what that guy's drinking, and a bottle to go please!'

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glokraw wrote: Sat Feb 24, 2024 10:14 pm
_leras wrote: Sat Feb 24, 2024 2:24 pm I think you'll find probably 99% of people don't want to customise their own experience, but just want the OS to stay out of the way and be as seamless and no time consuming as possible.
In your wildest dreams, you really belive mac/win OS's and hardware 'stay out of the way'? :dog: :roll:

'Bartender! I'll have three of what that guy's drinking, and a bottle to go please!'
:hihi:

I've literally had no problems with the PC I've had for the past 6ish years. Asus mobo, Win 10, RME, UAD cards. *

I literally switch on the pc, login, switch on my soundcard and speakers, launch Bitwig and I'm off and running.

* Strobe 2 doesn't keep its state properly if there are multiple instances in Bitwig, but this isn't a PC problem I'm sure.

Btw, I wish there was a simple to setup and install Linux box for audio, but if we are there already, the information is perhaps still too fragmented (for me).

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pekbro wrote: Sat Feb 24, 2024 1:43 pm I've been waiting for 30 yrs for linux to become practical for me. I continue to wait... :shrug:

*The issue for me is 100 % about the availability of commercial SW.
:)

You may have noticed that your post is now simply sinking here. It does not fit to The Truth™ about Linux. As you can see, the Linux enthusiasts here are in cheering mode again. Not that I don't begrudge them, party on! :party:

But it does not help. The lack of software remains the lack of software. You can get used to even the most awkward UI concepts. But when there is no software then you cannot get used to it at all. People uses Software. Not the OS. The OS is just the vehicle to get the software working. You don't turn on Debian to make music. You turn on Bitwig or Reaper to make music. And even these are just vehicles. The instruments and effects and recordings is what makes the music then.

I already did my best to explain why there is so few Windows/Mac software at Linux. Most software devs and companies are simply not willing to bend to a concept that makes them much more work and doesn't pay at the end of the day.

I am one of these devs. I still develop for Linux. I offer such a software where the enthusiasts then can point at, and can proudly tell everybody, see, there is the software. All there! A hail to Linux! But man, i cannot count how often i was at the point to simply quit. I already gave an example of yet another three weeks of wasted lifetime. The Truth™ does not give me this three weeks of my life back. Friends, stop throwing me stones into my way. Stop dancing around, and stop cheering it even. Fix your crap! I have to repeat, Linus knew all the trouble points before 10 ( yes i learn. Not that it even matters if two, eight or ten years. It's about the content) years already.

Fun fact, the traditional distributions clearly shows how the concept of The Truth™ doesn't work since many years. The Linux distros market share is flatlining at around +-2-3% since over 25 years. They did not benefit by a single user from Windows going down from over 90% market share to 75% in the last years. That was Mac.

Android showed how it can work. Google has the money and the knowledge. And one of the first things they did was to introduce Google Play. The software. With ChromeOS they try the same now. And ChromeOS has already a significant market share at the laptop. But ChromeOS has already a problem again at the desktop. The problem is called Software ...

And when even Google struggles, then you know that Linux at the desktop will remain where it is.

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