Do Linux users tend to be somewhat paranoid?

[mevla]

Don't go tooting the LinSux horn until you can run all this stuff 'NATIVELY', with nothing between what you are running and LinSux. I've been there before, I know how the Games perform, or don't perform, I've seen the poor FPS, the glitching and stuttering, I have seen the graphics tearing etc. I have experienced the comparative difficulties getting the sound card YOU want to run, run, and the disappointment when you can't run the DAW YOU want to run, or the plugins YOU want to run etc etc ad nauseam.

I have experienced it too. The DJ son of a real estate agent. When I told him I'm making music he looked interested. So I showed him. I started the computer, then I opened a console.

He freaked out.

There are people who told me years ago, "are you mad ? you have made a dark room in your home to develop films ? Why don't you simply give your rolls of films at the pharmacy counter for them to process ?"

There are people like that. No problem as long as they do not impose their limited horizons.

[mevla]

Plus he always keeps his cool when posting, shares what he discovers, and can actually carry a tune. In Texas terms, he has the hat, cattle, boots, and acreage. And likely the blisters and calouses that go with the territory.

He he ... can't tell no more.

Cheers.

[Largos]

What would be the main benefit of switching to linux specifically for music making purposes?

You switch because something is wrong with your current setup. If you are 100% fine with your current setup, then carry on using it. Personally, I switched when Vista was the current Windows version. The performance was garbage, the updater completely broke. It was about the time when you'd stop getting separate hard copies of the OS and makers were putting a backup in a partition on the hard drive which was an affront. I kept a windows on my system for a while mainly for games and at first for the windows music software I had. Now windows is completely gone for me. I get a much better day to day experience with my computing now, better performance, just a nicer operating system in every sense.

You have to have the right attitude though, you should be prepared to put some effort it in to learn new software and maybe buying some new hardware or you'll be like dellboy and most people who end up not getting on with it.

[dellboy]

What would be the main benefit of switching to linux specifically for music making purposes?

You switch because something is wrong with your current setup. If you are 100% fine with your current setup, then carry on using it. Personally, I switched when Vista was the current Windows version. The performance was garbage, the updater completely broke. It was about the time when you'd stop getting separate hard copies of the OS and makers were putting a backup in a partition on the hard drive which was an affront. I kept a windows on my system for a while mainly for games and at first for the windows music software I had. Now windows is completely gone for me. I get a much better day to day experience with my computing now, better performance, just a nicer operating system in every sense.

You have to have the right attitude though, you should be prepared to put some effort it in to learn new software and maybe buying some new hardware or you'll be like dellboy and most people who end up not getting on with it.

I should point out that I do currently have an external USB-C SSD drive with a fully functioning Ubuntu Studio Linux setup on it. I have installed Studio One Pro and Tracktion Waveform,along with Bitwig 8 track. Yabridge is also installed and working along with various closed source VSTS.

With regard to Studio One,it was not worth the bother installing it as it is half finished and bug ridden, and it is impossible to get rid of the crackly audio. I did try installing Studio One in Fedora in a container,but that did not work either. Bitwig works out of the box and shows how it should be done. Tracktion Waveform mostly works but is liable to crash at any given moment. At the end of the day I found I was just fighting to get things to work so I mostly use Windows to make music.

[Guenon]

There is so much unfortunate and misinformed (or actively seeking to misinform) discussion in this thread... that its main redeeming factor is a meta one: it represents those not-that-great qualities of the human psyche that might arise when discussing decisions and paths someone else has taken. It exemplifies how qualities like this begin to show in the particular case of operating systems, but the topic could be pretty much anything that offers a similar springboard for "this thing is better than the other thing, and the other thing sucks, by the way" type of dialog. Meh.

In this particular case, Linux is being misrepresented more, but it's just as bad when someone goes into that very same mode and then, in that tone, describes everything that is "objectively wrong" with Windows, for example.

So yeah, a lot of what's been said of Linux here is either just factually wrong, or justified in ways that aren't quite there. And again, people do vent about Windows in the same way, in other contexts. Or about different game engines. Different countries. Different ways to hang a toilet paper roll. Of course all these subjects can be discussed in a constructive, mature way, too - but the behavior I refer to is... that certain kind of... one-sided "doesn't genuinely want to see things from the perspective of the other person" type of charade.

So for example in this thread, the tone towards Linux has been, more than once, "well, if it works for you, then okay - but this also means, what ever you are doing isn't that good or respectable anyway, so nuh huh, whatever. I do better things so I need objectively better tools, and what you need is clearly worse, thus..." blabla. This isn't really the behavior of a person who is seeking to understand someone else, in good spirits. Instead it's just antagonizing.

Counting the Windows family of operating systems as one single entity (all the way from Windows 3.0 to current ones, I know this is not technically accurate, but let's just count it all as merely one), I've used eight different operating system families for audio/music through the years. I've been using audio/music software since before VST plugins existed (for example), and after they did, I started with the very first ones. Being tech oriented has been one of my quirks since elementary school (another quirk of mine might be that I'm also art/literature oriented, but I digress), and building & configuring my own stuff and workflows has always interested me, no matter which OS.

These days I've narrowed it down to: Windows, Linux, Android, iOS. The first two I use on the desktop (I have also used Android on the desktop experimentally, but yeah), and they are equally effortless in use, otherwise I would not use them, full stop. No matter how much I enjoy the techy side, when I have something set up, it needs to work reliably and efficiently, and with no recurring troubles that get in the way. I also do this for a living, after all.

On those desktop machines (full workstation towers and laptops), both of those systems allow me to do things the other system absolutely cannot do, and they do a very good job at what they do. Oh, and I've been lucky with my software choices, as the main audio/music tools I use most of the time are indeed the ones I natively use on both platforms, and they are the ones I have chosen because they best suit my way of working. I chose them before I started using Linux.

As I've said before, I wouldn't recommend Linux to someone who isn't familiar with computers and how to approach an operating system from a technical viewpoint. This is the important part, though: as with anything that requires special skill and results in rewarding things that an alternative can't provide you with, the skill/mindset requirement alone doesn't make anything better or worse. It most probably makes something suit some individual better than something else, in a given situation, with given preferences and previous interests and so on, and this doesn't make this or that individual better or worse, either. What strikes me as odd and unfortunate in discussions like this - and it doesn't have to be about operating systems, like I said - is trying to belittle and minimize someone else's choice, telling them how they are, although still looking at it from your own perspective, not theirs.

[Monsieur_FyP]

There are people like that. No problem as long as they do not impose their limited horizons.

Their horizons are no more limited than yours, they're just not facing the same cardinal point.
The person who has his films developed by a lab may put a lot more energy and talent into shooting than you, who are interested in development... His horizons in this direction are vast, enough for him to devote all his time to it... Life is short.
(What's more, development carried out by skilled professionals is likely to be more serious than your DIY approach... I know a thing or two about that! But that's another topic.)

[mevla]

There are people like that. No problem as long as they do not impose their limited horizons.

Their horizons are no more limited than yours, they're just not facing the same cardinal point.
The person who has his films developed by a lab may put a lot more energy and talent into shooting than you, who are interested in development... His horizons in this direction are vast, enough for him to devote all his time to it... Life is short.

It's equivalent to saying that an artistic painter will get his colour palette mixed by somebody else so he can concentrate on painting. Way to go. You have other arguments like that ?

(What's more, development carried out by skilled professionals is likely to be more serious than your DIY approach... I know a thing or two about that! But that's another topic.)

It's mostly a machine in a pharmacy or corner store/shopping mall photo shop. Align any professional, no-one, except if he's your long time mate will know how to develop and print pictures like you see them coming to be. That's simple common sense.

Life is short. Better make reservations for the composting of your body today !

[mevla]

So for example in this thread, the tone towards Linux has been, more than once, "well, if it works for you, then okay - but this also means, what ever you are doing isn't that good or respectable anyway, so nuh huh, whatever. I do better things so I need objectively better tools, and what you need is clearly worse, thus..." blabla. This isn't really the behavior of a person who is seeking to understand someone else, in good spirits. Instead it's just antagonizing.

Marketing does not help as often the sales pitch is on being a pro because one is using tools designed for professionals. Or rather, said to be designed that way. Have the best sound, have the best of everything and then one will make music like a pro. "So hey, I got all the pro stuff that I'm very proud about, I spend that much money, I'm de facto a pro, and you tell me you are using Linux ??"

Something like that.

Counting the Windows family of operating systems as one single entity (all the way from Windows 3.0 to current ones,

3.0 was a big improvement. I used to run Smalltalk from a pile of floppy disks on 1.3, just for curiosity's sake. And certainly not from a lack of patience, even though the PC at the technical school had two floppy disk drives.

But then I haven't seen Windows now for about 25 years except quick uses when learning how to hack computers. The fun it was to hack DLLs. 'Island hopping', when you jump over code to find empty 'islands' where to put your hacking code. Linux is also hackable by the way but the difference was in difficulty or easiness of access since quite a long time.

I started to create music on Linux simply because that's what I used at work and at home, and had no need whatsoever to use Windows. After spending some miserable time trudging through MSDN so-called 'documentation' at that time, I was totally charmed by the fact that in Linux one could get rather clearly to the bottom of things if one so wishes. I never felt like going back to the Windows 'jungle' both professionally and for home uses. I ran my home built LFS and BLFS Linux systems both for work products and at home. Our kids learned from that, especially the youngest one who once hacked his way through the school network, initially got suspended for a couple of days but finished the year with rewards since the school understood how beneficial his action was in making their network better.

So I never went back to Windows. This said, as I have demonstrated here, by a two collaborations, a remix of one of my creation done by a small commercial studio, and one of my creation being offered at Mike Senior's Cambridge mixing practice library, I have no problems at all about any setup people are using.

What matters is creativity and inspiration. Once it's there, we can always work together whatever the setups are.

What I do somewhat mind about, are people who tag me as close-minded and limited because I talk about Linux when the context invites to, assuming stances and ideas that I never had. Experience has shown that these people are often not creative nor inspired, at that time period at least.

No matter how much I enjoy the techy side, when I have something set up, it needs to work reliably and efficiently, and with no recurring troubles that get in the way. I also do this for a living, after all.

You'd have more of that perspective when your work is used by millions throughout the world on a daily basis.

But hey, I just realized that I'm responding to the same guy who put forth as an argument that a guy getting his film rolls developed at a pharmacy will likely make better picture than me who was also developing them, because he has more time to concentrate on taking pictures whereas I do not, being busy developing them at home in my own dark room.

You concluded with "life is short". I'll then reiterate :

Better make your reservations for the composting of your body today Monsieur Fyp !

D'ici là ne comptes pas trop les minutes qui passent. Car elles passent, elles passent, les unes après les autres.

[Guenon]

No matter how much I enjoy the techy side, when I have something set up, it needs to work reliably and efficiently, and with no recurring troubles that get in the way. I also do this for a living, after all.

You'd have more of that perspective when your work is used by millions throughout the world on a daily basis.

But hey, I just realized that I'm responding to the same guy who put forth as an argument that a guy getting his film rolls developed at a pharmacy will likely make better picture than me who was also developing them,

Hmm, you are not replying to that person here, actually; you seem to have gotten your quotes mixed up ... (In any case, my perspective on how I want my tools to function is, in part, shaped by the practical reality of my work indeed being used by millions of people. I don't avoid commercial licenses or even tools with "Pro" in the name if the software actually does what I want, heh. Conversely, I never avoid free or open source tools just because they are that, either.)

All in all, I do think it's better to refrain from assuming extraneous things of the other person and commenting on how that person is and how that person feels, based on said assumptions, no matter what one's viewpoints happen to be on the actual matters being discussed. It's so easy to start describing someone their mind and motivations, as if it's possible to know these things better than they do know themselves.

[mevla]

Hmm, you are not replying to that person here, actually; you seem to have gotten your quotes mixed up ...

Indeed

(In any case, my perspective on how I want my tools to function is, in part, shaped by the practical reality of my work indeed being used by millions of people. I don't avoid commercial licenses or even tools with "Pro" in the name if the software actually does what I want, heh. Conversely, I never avoid free or open source tools just because they are that, either.)

Absolutely.

All in all, I do think it's better to refrain from assuming extraneous things of the other person and commenting on how that person is and how that person feels, based on said assumptions, no matter what one's viewpoints happen to be on the actual matters being discussed. It's so easy to start describing someone their mind and motivations, as if it's possible to know these things better than they do know themselves.

I agree. We can also see this happening at a fast pace when there are demonstrators of different opinions in the streets, each throwing adjectives to the others as if all these people knew each other. Each one strongly entrenched in their own camp.

On the other hand when one consistently refers back to technical aspects that do not matter anymore, despite several people showing and proving otherwise, then it's unfortunately tempting to start characterizing that person somehow. That is, when technically demonstrated beyond reasonable doubt. And perhaps in that case, when the person nevertheless refuses to consider documented arguments brought forth without having put on the table substantial counter-arguments (which would also have to be received with an open mind : in works both ways, for all parties involved), the person we could qualify as 'stubborn' from an open point of view, gets what he's calling for. Sometimes people can also need a tad of a shaking to shrug off their static conceptions.

Now let's bring some thoughts along those lines to the United Nations.

[Monsieur_FyP]

Their horizons are no more limited than yours, they're just not facing the same cardinal point.
The person who has his films developed by a lab may put a lot more energy and talent into shooting than you, who are interested in development... His horizons in this direction are vast, enough for him to devote all his time to it... Life is short.

It's equivalent to saying that an artistic painter will get his colour palette mixed by somebody else so he can concentrate on painting. Way to go. You have other arguments like that ?

Ludicrous comparison that misses the point. You have other arguments like that? To put it more fairly : a musician who doesn't do his own mixing or mastering doesn't have necessarily "a limited horizon" !... There are people whose job it is and who do it very well.

(What's more, development carried out by skilled professionals is likely to be more serious than your DIY approach... I know a thing or two about that! But that's another topic.)

It's mostly a machine in a pharmacy or corner store/shopping mall photo shop. Align any professional, no-one, except if he's your long time mate will know how to develop and print pictures like you see them coming to be. That's simple common sense.

One can never be too wary of "common sense". Unluckily for you, I know pretty well how it goes. Very few of the professional photographers I know, who still use silver, develop their own film or make their own prints. They give precise instructions and check the results. I've never done it since I was a student, when I was required to learn lab tasks. The person doing the lab job works quickly and easily, has special skills and is an integral part of the creative process.
(Most commonly, those who do their own developing are Sunday-artists, striplings who want to do what grandpa did, or DIY-mystics who have a simplistic idea of freedom and self-sufficiency. And the results aren't exactly brilliant.)

Life is short. Better make reservations for the composting of your body today !

So silly and beside the point! If you're as good a linuxian as you are a semantician, you'd better go back to Windows
Watch your step!

[mevla]

Their horizons are no more limited than yours, they're just not facing the same cardinal point.
The person who has his films developed by a lab may put a lot more energy and talent into shooting than you, who are interested in development... His horizons in this direction are vast, enough for him to devote all his time to it... Life is short.

It's equivalent to saying that an artistic painter will get his colour palette mixed by somebody else so he can concentrate on painting. Way to go. You have other arguments like that ?

Ludicrous comparison that misses the point. You have other arguments like that? To put it more fairly : a musician who doesn't do his own mixing or mastering doesn't have necessarily "a limited horizon" !... There are people whose job it is and who do it very well.

(What's more, development carried out by skilled professionals is likely to be more serious than your DIY approach... I know a thing or two about that! But that's another topic.)

It's mostly a machine in a pharmacy or corner store/shopping mall photo shop. Align any professional, no-one, except if he's your long time mate will know how to develop and print pictures like you see them coming to be. That's simple common sense.

One can never be too wary of "common sense". Unluckily for you, I know pretty well how it goes. Very few of the professional photographers I know, who still use silver, develop their own film or make their own prints. They give precise instructions and check the results. I've never done it since I was a student, when I was required to learn lab tasks. The person doing the lab job works quickly and easily, has special skills and is an integral part of the creative process.
(Most commonly, those who do their own developing are Sunday-artists, striplings who want to do what grandpa did, or DIY-mystics who have a simplistic idea of freedom and self-sufficiency. And the results aren't exactly brilliant.)

And so the professionals are going to the aforementioned pharmacy and shopping center to get their prints ?

Talk about not relating to a context.

All you want to do is showing off hence you jump contexts to make it happen.

Life is short. Better make reservations for the composting of your body today !

So silly and beside the point! If you're as good a linuxian as you are a semantician, you'd better go back to Windows
Watch your step!

"Life is short", the argument you brought, is utterly nonsense. There are so many succesfull people in every conceivable field who are doing a lot more than the strict minimum, who are doing other tasks contributing to their general knowledge. Curious and passionate people.

You should have used instead : I can't do that much so I'll use the justification that "life is short" instead. Which is also aptly fit for a mind that's not curious nor very creative and inspired.

And yes, since you consider that life is too short for you, better make your reservation for the composting of your body today. If it's not already done in your country, just wait a tad, keep an eye for it., and make the reservations.

[mevla]

So silly and beside the point! If you're as good a linuxian as you are a semantician, you'd better go back to Windows Watch your step!

Looks like this has reach a low point.

I never mentioned anything technical pertaining to professional work. I did mention that I worked using Linux and that with the work I helped sending our kids to university. Which means I'm of a certain age, obviously.

Now your are putting in a degraded light the professional abilities I have veiled in a ubiquitous 'if' but since that wasn't enough, you added to 'watch my step' as if I'm old and frail. This is getting personal, is not called for, and I'm pretty certain is not tolerated on KVR. All that to push your argument.

No matter what your subsequent explanations/justifications can be.

[billinder33]

Do you like having the option to run any DAW or plugin on the market?
Do you want your computing system to require the lowest possible amount of technical accumen to run your music software?
Do you like the comfy feeling that your OS and software combination has been deployed by tens of thousands of users and is receiving the vast majority of a vendor's technical support resources?
If so, then avoid Linux.

Do you not care about these things?
Ask your doctor if Linux is right for you.

[glokraw]

A linux user is free to use any other OS if something compelling is available, or needed for a given task. Many people just use hardware for the most part, with minimal computer use. Many people just use acoustic instruments in the same way. The number of choices is myriad, and assuming physical ability, and budget, people can freely choose tools, and move about in various related creative circles. Those busy ridiculing people for one choice or another, affect both their own health, and the happiness in creative communities. Myself, I don't need a choice among all the daws, and generally speaking, seeking to have and apply the "lowest possible amount of technical accumen" for any task, be it cooking, digging a hole, or creating music, is the polar opposite of my approach to life. Two of my favorite people in the music biz, never directly use linux in the day-to-day, yet I crave soaking up their wisdom, using their products, and hearing of their adventures. I do know their days would be more difficult without linux in it's oft unheralded secondary roles.
Cheers