Sad state of Native Instruments

VST, AU, AAX, CLAP, etc. Plugin Virtual Instruments Discussion
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Jac459 wrote: Sat Mar 02, 2024 7:48 am
noiseboyuk wrote: Sat Mar 02, 2024 7:40 am Had no issues with Lores or Fable (though the pitch bend isn't operable - might have to look into that). The macros are stage controls - left right, foreground / background - all work fine for me. Love them both, excellent quality products.

By contrast, I've never got on with the UVI extensions, they feel cheap to me. Horses / courses.
Well, out of the 450 plugins I have (not counting the Reason Rack Extensions) (sorry, I am playing with the new KVR plugin manager lol), the 2 that are really crashing are from Native Instrument (Stutter Edit and Kontakt/Lores/Fables)... That's really scares me for the next version of Ozone that I like and use a lot...

Actually I agree with you, the sounds are nice, or even some really really nice (that why I purchased the bundle) but the macros are really not working ==> I am not talking of the stage controls, these works (hell, it is volume and panning, shouldn't be too complex), but I am talking about the knob below, with noise, compression and.... reverb.
Do they work for you ?
Coming back to KVR because ... Lores crashed again.
Another problem I have with Lores and Fables is the very very little control you have over the sound... I mean you can mix 3 sources, for the rest it is very very limited. The aftertouch is much less interesting than I thought. If you take the Quadra series from UVI for example, which maybe is the most similar, you can prefer Lores sounds, it is your right, but there is no point of discussion that you have much much more control on the sound created...
You don't have to swallow the pill given to you, you can really make yours...

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Jac459 wrote: Sat Mar 02, 2024 7:48 amthe macros are really not working ==> I am not talking of the stage controls, these works (hell, it is volume and panning, shouldn't be too complex), but I am talking about the knob below, with noise, compression and.... reverb.
Do they work for you ?
Yes they're all fine here.

BTW the stage controls aren't volume and panning, it's reverb (I guess IR), panning and maybe spatialisation too.

I think you should get on to NI to see what's happening with your install. Maybe it's OS / Kontakt version related. I've mostly used it on the PC and had no issues at all, I do have it on the Mac but haven't really used it much in anger there. I can't recall reading of anyone else with stability issues either.

It's true there's not a huge variety in manipulation, but I find with the stacking controls and the sublime and inspired samples they are the best of that kind of product I own. Lores' instrumentation suits me better than Fables... I so wish they'd do a combined version so you could mix and match instruments from each.
http://www.guyrowland.co.uk
http://www.sound-on-screen.com
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noiseboyuk wrote: Sat Mar 02, 2024 2:57 pm
Jac459 wrote: Sat Mar 02, 2024 7:48 amthe macros are really not working ==> I am not talking of the stage controls, these works (hell, it is volume and panning, shouldn't be too complex), but I am talking about the knob below, with noise, compression and.... reverb.
Do they work for you ?
Yes they're all fine here.

BTW the stage controls aren't volume and panning, it's reverb (I guess IR), panning and maybe spatialisation too.

I think you should get on to NI to see what's happening with your install. Maybe it's OS / Kontakt version related. I've mostly used it on the PC and had no issues at all, I do have it on the Mac but haven't really used it much in anger there. I can't recall reading of anyone else with stability issues either.

It's true there's not a huge variety in manipulation, but I find with the stacking controls and the sublime and inspired samples they are the best of that kind of product I own. Lores' instrumentation suits me better than Fables... I so wish they'd do a combined version so you could mix and match instruments from each.
Ok, thanks for the answers. I will give it more time and more tries.

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dune_rave wrote: Sat Mar 02, 2024 7:02 am Who needs NI, when we have U-he and others?
U-he are great at what they do, perhaps because they love what they do, and do what they are best at. Maybe their employees have little interest during working hours in creating some things NI and others have done for ages:

A drum/rythm machine
Standalone arpeggiator and sequencer
Amp-sim suite
Rompler
Sampler and sample libs
Modular system and related collection
Preset mapping system for their hardware controllers

U-he keep their business manageable and happy. NI can reverse course and undo decisions, in several areas, if they want to have that type of workplace and profitability. I hope they do that. :hyper:

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I realize there are personnel situations that when carved in stone, can't be reversed, but that doesn't mean you can't search for replacement personnel of the highest capability. Doesn't mean you can't go back and see what customers who spent loads of money for your products, hoped for in the future. And then make that happen.
Cheers

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dune_rave wrote: Sat Mar 02, 2024 7:02 am Who needs NI, when we have U-he and others?
This.

Amount of NI products I own: zero.

I miss: nothing.

8)

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Ha, all the comments about u-he (who are a terrific company with great NI promotions) confirm exactly what a few of us have been saying - KVR only has eyes for synths, beats and FX. No other instruments need apply.

Only a fraction of Komplete (certainly CE) are these things. Whenever I see the word "bloat" used, I always mentally adjust to the real meaning being "not personally interesting to me and therefore it shouldn't exist".
http://www.guyrowland.co.uk
http://www.sound-on-screen.com
W10, i7 7820X, 64gb RAM, RME Babyface, 1050ti, PT 2023 Ultimate, Cubase Pro 13
Macbook Air M2 OSX 10.15

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noiseboyuk wrote: Sun Mar 03, 2024 2:36 am KVR only has eyes for synths, beats and FX.
OK, I’m stumped. What else is there?
THIS MUSIC HAS BEEN MIXED TO BE PLAYED LOUD SO TURN IT UP

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jamcat wrote: Sun Mar 03, 2024 2:44 am
noiseboyuk wrote: Sun Mar 03, 2024 2:36 am KVR only has eyes for synths, beats and FX.
OK, I’m stumped. What else is there?
ROMplers!!

And apparently ‘synths, beats and FX’ is something that is somehow other as far as NI is concerned.

Must be a different NI to the one I know.
I lost my heart in Taumatawhakatangihangakoauauotamateaturipukakapikimaungahoronukupokaiwhenuakitanatahu

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jamcat wrote: Sun Mar 03, 2024 2:44 am
noiseboyuk wrote: Sun Mar 03, 2024 2:36 am KVR only has eyes for synths, beats and FX.
OK, I’m stumped. What else is there?
Most of Komplete is libraries, so that's probably the answer.

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noiseboyuk wrote: Sun Mar 03, 2024 2:36 am Ha, all the comments about u-he (who are a terrific company with great NI promotions) confirm exactly what a few of us have been saying - KVR only has eyes for synths, beats and FX. No other instruments need apply.

Only a fraction of Komplete (certainly CE) are these things. Whenever I see the word "bloat" used, I always mentally adjust to the real meaning being "not personally interesting to me and therefore it shouldn't exist".
Well I have a theory about that. KVR is an extraordinary place with a lot of potential generated by all these different experiences as we are all from different countries, culture, with different goals, approach to music etc.
But this potential is not very much used because people are actually not very open to other people experience and prefer to say that their experience is the best and other thinking differently are stupid or bad.

That was very evident this week with the dumbest ever discussion with some people not accepting that other people where buying wavetables and not doing their own... (yes, beyond dumb, I agree).

My theory about that is that the level of insecurity of musicians is actually higher than in most of other domains.
If you are an amateur, and say, you are running. You know your perf. You can benchmark yourself with clear KPI, you can see how you fare against other of your age group etc, etc. But in music it is all subjectivity. And insecure people don't deal with that well.
If you are a pro, there is a very big chance that you are not in a Full Time Contract but doing short term contracts with the lot of insecurity and doubt that it can bring...
So yes, not bringing a lot of security.

So back to your point, yes, there is the stream of passion around U-He (which of course deserve it also) and there is kind of "line of thinking" that maybe prevent people to share freely.

And by the way, as per our discussion on Lores/Fables, I would love to have some more experience on how you use it. Because I must admit that I am kind of stuck. I was thinking they will kind of help me create melodies but it is not really the case. And when I watch NI trailer videos, they seems to use Lores/Fables more to complement a melody than create one... How do you use it yourself ?

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revvy wrote: Sun Mar 03, 2024 2:57 am
jamcat wrote: Sun Mar 03, 2024 2:44 am
noiseboyuk wrote: Sun Mar 03, 2024 2:36 am KVR only has eyes for synths, beats and FX.
OK, I’m stumped. What else is there?
ROMplers!!
But don’t most people consider the KORG M1 and Trident to be synths? Or the Roland D-50, JD-800, and JV-1080 to be synths?
THIS MUSIC HAS BEEN MIXED TO BE PLAYED LOUD SO TURN IT UP

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Ni still has a strong/old catalog, but their newer releases didn't interest me at all.
I like their synths and effects mostly. The sampled stuff not so much. I'd rather go third parties.
But since they keep going in that direction for now, there is probably some audience for it.
Last edited by Daru925 on Mon Mar 04, 2024 3:50 am, edited 1 time in total.

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jamcat wrote: Sun Mar 03, 2024 3:24 am
revvy wrote: Sun Mar 03, 2024 2:57 am
jamcat wrote: Sun Mar 03, 2024 2:44 am
noiseboyuk wrote: Sun Mar 03, 2024 2:36 am KVR only has eyes for synths, beats and FX.
OK, I’m stumped. What else is there?
ROMplers!!
But don’t most people consider the KORG M1 and Trident to be synths? Or the Roland D-50, JD-800, and JV-1080 to be synths?
Yes but for the case of NI I guess it is much more about Multi samples library on steroids.
As said just before I am not sure that it is the most popular stuff at least here in kvr.

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Jac459 wrote: Sun Mar 03, 2024 3:00 amAnd by the way, as per our discussion on Lores/Fables, I would love to have some more experience on how you use it. Because I must admit that I am kind of stuck. I was thinking they will kind of help me create melodies but it is not really the case. And when I watch NI trailer videos, they seems to use Lores/Fables more to complement a melody than create one... How do you use it yourself ?
Yes, absolutely - I don't use them for any lead lines. That said of course some music (esp soundrack) is abstract enough to not need a conventional lead (which would typically need true legato). Lores is amazing for textures that sound real and organic, played by real instruments, yet does not sound conventional or cliched. I think media / film / tv is the core purpose for Lores and Fables.
http://www.guyrowland.co.uk
http://www.sound-on-screen.com
W10, i7 7820X, 64gb RAM, RME Babyface, 1050ti, PT 2023 Ultimate, Cubase Pro 13
Macbook Air M2 OSX 10.15

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