What is conventionality/novelty in electronic music?

[vurt]

the point would be the same as it is now, therapeutic recreation. making noise, of any kind, be it singing along to pop songs or playing instruments, makes me feel good.
i record quite a lot, but it is just a fraction of the time i spend just noodling.
im quite happy to sit with an 8 note sequencer cycling over hours, getting lost in the wash of sound, created with various filters and fx over a single triangle

[mjudge55]

the point would be the same as it is now, therapeutic recreation. making noise, of any kind, be it singing along to pop songs or playing instruments, makes me feel good.
i record quite a lot, but it is just a fraction of the time i spend just noodling.
im quite happy to sit with an 8 note sequencer cycling over hours, getting lost in the wash of sound, created with various filters and fx over a single triangle

Makes sense to me! In fact for all we know all the innovative music, instruments and processes going on external to you ARE generated by a button just like I described and it basically changes nothing about your need or motivation to create.

[soundmodel]

Is this sort of thing novelty in electronic music?

https://www.kvraudio.com/marketplace/th ... technology

Just using this as an example, could be any other "sound engine" type of plug-in.

When combined with synths and other audio shaping tools, transitions completed their metamorphosis from science to art. Until now, this process has convoluted and time-intensive, taking attention away from the overall project itself. The composer spent more time trying to get plugins, virtual sample players, hardware effects, sound modules, and other gear to play nice with each other – and that was before hitting "record".

But we could also notice that since it's a product, then it's obvious that their target customer is the "tools composer".

But it is evident that the plug-in developer has a significant influence on the creative outcomes.

[BertKoor]

Is this sort of thing [theRiser plugin] novelty in electronic music?

New to me (although I don't keep track)
So yeah, why not...

Screenshot_20240306_111332_Opera.jpg

Even fits both definitions

Thing is with novelty: it wears off quickly. Chasing that? Good luck!!

[vurt]

Is this sort of thing novelty in electronic music?

https://www.kvraudio.com/marketplace/th ... technology

Just using this as an example, could be any other "sound engine" type of plug-in.

When combined with synths and other audio shaping tools, transitions completed their metamorphosis from science to art. Until now, this process has convoluted and time-intensive, taking attention away from the overall project itself. The composer spent more time trying to get plugins, virtual sample players, hardware effects, sound modules, and other gear to play nice with each other – and that was before hitting "record".

But we could also notice that since it's a product, then it's obvious that their target customer is the "tools composer".

But it is evident that the plug-in developer has a significant influence on the creative outcomes.

as a tool, perhaps, but the riser, has been a thing since a long time back.
its a song part, similar to a crescendo, for electronic dance music (usually). before, the artist would need to create it themselves, using various editing techniques, now this tool means you can just ignore all that and produce risers.
similar, to glitching being novel, when people were editing it, by hand. less novel when every drum beat was put through db glitch

[mjudge55]

Most of the music tech (like the Riser) is actually intended to help you make conventional music.

[lobanov]

Is this sort of thing novelty in electronic music?

https://www.kvraudio.com/marketplace/th ... technology

Just using this as an example, could be any other "sound engine" type of plug-in.

When combined with synths and other audio shaping tools, transitions completed their metamorphosis from science to art. Until now, this process has convoluted and time-intensive, taking attention away from the overall project itself. The composer spent more time trying to get plugins, virtual sample players, hardware effects, sound modules, and other gear to play nice with each other – and that was before hitting "record".

But we could also notice that since it's a product, then it's obvious that their target customer is the "tools composer".

But it is evident that the plug-in developer has a significant influence on the creative outcomes.

as a tool, perhaps, but the riser, has been a thing since a long time back.
its a song part, similar to a crescendo, for electronic dance music (usually). before, the artist would need to create it themselves, using various editing techniques, now this tool means you can just ignore all that and produce risers.
similar, to glitching being novel, when people were editing it, by hand. less novel when every drum beat was put through db glitch

Huh, yes, if a technique was automated (you can make something by few clicks) it is not novel. It is a widely spread technique which is used often and used everywhere. In most cases really novel things aren't automated and hard to (re)produce.

[Jac459]

I fully agreed with the few last posts but....

If I take the example of UVI Whoosh, a powerful transition tool (guess with similarities with riser). As it brings a totally new approach to do something very common and not novel, it can actually be banded and repurposed to do very different things. Meaning you don't use it at all for traditional stuffs but band it differently. So in that sense it can bring novelty.

[mjudge55]

I fully agreed with the few last posts but....

If I take the example of UVI Whoosh, a powerful transition tool (guess with similarities with riser). As it brings a totally new approach to do something very common and not novel, it can actually be banded and repurposed to do very different things. Meaning you don't use it at all for traditional stuffs but band it differently. So in that sense it can bring novelty.

I note bullet one of the product page that says it's for creating "ads, films, games, music, and more". Now I take your point the tech is neutral and can be used any way, but I think the most likely path for it to be used in an innovative way is an artist with no understanding of its objective technological merits irreverently, even ignorantly, (mis)uses it outside of its intended context. The artist can't just use it in any old way though, the music made with it has to say something new to the culture (while also recalling the past). It's only then that the tech comes to be thought of as innovative, but had it not been for the artist that tech would pass into obscurity, a footnote. The tech is always evolving because there is a commercial industry that needs new products to sell to people who sell still more products. But the tech has no artistic value in its intended context, especially has no value in itself, and is only imbued with value by the artists intervention.

[justin3am]

Yeah, I’ve always liked the idea of innovative techniques coming from folks who have a naive approach to whatever’s at their disposal.

There are also people who create their own instruments because the sounds they need to get out can’t be made with anything that you can buy off the shelf.

Then you have virtuosos who are so thoroughly familiar with their instruments, that they can pull previously unheard techniques out of a well worn axe.

With all that said, I think there are more subtle/humble ways to achieve a unique, even groundbreaking result. I’ve heard artists find their own voice in an existing style and it just seems to redefine what that kind of music can be. Perhaps novelty can also be part of how you are hearing things.

[rj0]

Invention.

Frequently the result of taking an approach that works in one context and applying it (perhaps with a few twists) to a dramatically different context.

Novelty?

[lobanov]

Invention.

Frequently the result of taking an approach that works in one context and applying it (perhaps with a few twists) to a dramatically different context.

Novelty?

Agree.

An invention remains an invention if it became old and conventional. Sort of an "eternal residue". Strictly speaking it is not eternal bit it "lasts".

Novelty... For me, it is something from newspapers. "Groundbreaking" news, sensations etc. Journalism.

Also the difference between an invention and a discovery seems meaningful. Discovery is on the subjective side. "New for me".

[mjudge55]

I was also thinking about the notion of "electronic music" as a tech forward, even tech dependent, genre. While certain tech is necessary for it, and the theme of futurism and innovation is prominent, I think there are other prominent themes that are actually potentially contrary to or separate from this notion and are things to consider in periods of arguably lesser innovation in instruments/gear:

- The theme of abandoned, overlooked, or lost technology
- The theme of technology as a dislocating, disconnecting, dehumanizing force
- The theme of decay, lost civilization or empire
- Roboticism/cybernetics combined with "soul"
- Loss of innocence and ideals
- Sexual disassociation
- Economic immobility, making do with limited means
- Inauthenticity, disposability, low culture

Again, this all points back to the artist and what the music is saying overtly or otherwise. The tech is really just a tool, and sometimes a hindrance, in expressing the themes and messages.

[Bunny_boy]

- Loss of innocence and ideals
- Sexual disassociation
- Economic immobility, making do with limited means
- Inauthenticity, disposability, low culture

Surely those are themes of music for the last 120 years?

[Bunny_boy]

Novelty... For me, it is something from newspapers. "Groundbreaking" news, sensations etc. Journalism.

Also the difference between an invention and a discovery seems meaningful. Discovery is on the subjective side. "New for me".

Not sure how holding the powerful to account and exposing hypocrisy and abuse in authorities is novelty, but I suppose it depends if you read the Express or not.

At the risk of a tautological absurdity, an invention is something which has been invented, created; a discovery is something that been discovered, found.

The dinosaurs were not invented, and the telephone was not discovered.