Wave Alchemy - Triaz Native - No Kontakt -- Free for current owners!

[eecrumjr77]

don't know about the demo, i've got the full version and can add any sample folders i like to the user samples/presets folder

Ok. This is HUGE for me, and really the only way I will buy. I have to be able to feed my library into the indexer, or adding individual samples would take a year lol. I have 2+TB of various material, including the whole K14 nonsense, etc, and I need to know if this can mass-import/index.

Page 20-21 of the user manual.

[Milkman]

don't know about the demo, i've got the full version and can add any sample folders i like to the user samples/presets folder

Ok. This is HUGE for me, and really the only way I will buy. I have to be able to feed my library into the indexer, or adding individual samples would take a year lol. I have 2+TB of various material, including the whole K14 nonsense, etc, and I need to know if this can mass-import/index.

It will "tag" samples by using the name of the folders they reside in. As mentioned earlier in the thread (by someone else, credit due), I'm using symbolic links (as mentioned elsewhere in the thread) to setup my folders so I don't have to copy samples and waste disk space.

Interesting. I watched a Red Means Recording video tutorial on this, and I saw him managing his 3rd party content using folder/tagging. This really brought me to this conversation.

So is the Triaz application capable of being pointed at my existing sample library location without it needing to "import(copy)" that content into its local directory tree? Is that why you are using symbolic links? And those symbolic links can point to the higher level folders (and auto scan all subs), or how is this working out for you?

[Milkman]

don't know about the demo, i've got the full version and can add any sample folders i like to the user samples/presets folder

Ok. This is HUGE for me, and really the only way I will buy. I have to be able to feed my library into the indexer, or adding individual samples would take a year lol. I have 2+TB of various material, including the whole K14 nonsense, etc, and I need to know if this can mass-import/index.

Page 20-21 of the user manual.

Im using the demo -- cant seem to find user manual in directory structure, nor can I find it online. Did the application drop this somewhere?

Edit: nm, found it. Thanks. Yeah, it sounds like (but Im not 100%) it wants to import, or it wants you to drag/drop your existing library inside its "user" folder. I have a lot of content, and creating symbolic links for them all will be time consuming. Does anyone know -- is mapping existing "user sample" content WITHOUT importing/copying a feature that might come later? It would take me a while to relocate the root of my entire sample library... to the Triaz folder structure.

[Milkman]

In demo mode, I cant get any folders of user samples loaded into Triaz, even if I actually copy the folders into the "user samples" location.

I can add samples 1 at a time to single channels, but I cannot demonstrate that Triaz can mass import / index / access libraries through symbolic links in this demo. I really need to know it can do these things before buying. I guess Ill wait for their customer support to get back to me.

[wave alchemy]

Yeah I reported something similar earlier in this thread. The midi export doesn't seem to work right every time, you get an older pattern when you export midi sometimes. WA responded and said to use the delete (trash can) icon to clear out old patterns and then generate the new pattern. But this isn't a great solution since it is easy to forget to do that every time I want to export and then I end up with a different midi pattern exported than what is currently in the sequencer. I pointed this out but WA never responded after that. They could just auto-clear the midi export buffer when you open the export window and it would solve the issue. I am glad more people are noticing the issue.

Yes, this is not a bug or issue as such, but by design. It is simply the case that the MIDI file for export doesn't change until you render it again. This has a coupe of pros, but I agree it can be confusing if you didn't understand this. We actually changed this a few days ago and it now works exactly as you wrote above, and will be part of the 1.01 update coming soon. Closing the Export window now clears the MIDI file automatically

[Milkman]

Another thing Im confused about -- the "user samples" import feature says "it uses the first 2 folder levels of sample packs..."

Does this mean it wont index things 3 or more levels down, or that it just uses the top 2 folder levels to NAME/TAG content while still indexing deeper? These details are extremely important to me, and are the only things stopping me from making this purchase.

[KBSoundSmith]

don't know about the demo, i've got the full version and can add any sample folders i like to the user samples/presets folder

Ok. This is HUGE for me, and really the only way I will buy. I have to be able to feed my library into the indexer, or adding individual samples would take a year lol. I have 2+TB of various material, including the whole K14 nonsense, etc, and I need to know if this can mass-import/index.

It will "tag" samples by using the name of the folders they reside in. As mentioned earlier in the thread (by someone else, credit due), I'm using symbolic links (as mentioned elsewhere in the thread) to setup my folders so I don't have to copy samples and waste disk space.

Interesting. I watched a Red Means Recording video tutorial on this, and I saw him managing his 3rd party content using folder/tagging. This really brought me to this conversation.

So is the Triaz application capable of being pointed at my existing sample library location without it needing to "import(copy)" that content into its local directory tree? Is that why you are using symbolic links? And those symbolic links can point to the higher level folders (and auto scan all subs), or how is this working out for you?

Okay, I ran some experiments to see how to set it up as it's new to me too. I attached an image below to show the results.

I used two symbolic links. The first goes to a folder named "Focusrite" and the second to a folder called "TestGroup". First things first, after either placing a folder or a symbolic link in the Triaz User folder, you have to click the Refresh button in order for them to show up in the User Samples collection (refresh button is circled in red on the attached image).

The Root folder that is linked will show up as the name of a collection (in this case, Focusrite and TestGroup). In the image shown, I clicked on the collection TestGroup. When TestGroup is selected, the first level of sub-directories are folders named Drums and Synths -- you'll notice they are interpreted as "Drums" and "Synths" in blue text under the header "Drum." The sub-directories contained within Drums are Kick and Snare, and within Synths are Modal and Moog (green arrows show folder structure). Notice that these all show up under the header Tag. I distributed three samples (STE-000 through -002) among 3 of the 4 folders (kick, snare, modal), and they show up under the header Samples. If I were to click on blue-text Drums, only STE-000 and STE-001 will show, and if I click on blue-text Synths, only STE-002 will show.

Hopefully this gives you an idea of what you may expect. I'm next going to try nesting an additional layer of sub-directories to see how it gets treated.

[Milkman]

don't know about the demo, i've got the full version and can add any sample folders i like to the user samples/presets folder

Ok. This is HUGE for me, and really the only way I will buy. I have to be able to feed my library into the indexer, or adding individual samples would take a year lol. I have 2+TB of various material, including the whole K14 nonsense, etc, and I need to know if this can mass-import/index.

It will "tag" samples by using the name of the folders they reside in. As mentioned earlier in the thread (by someone else, credit due), I'm using symbolic links (as mentioned elsewhere in the thread) to setup my folders so I don't have to copy samples and waste disk space.

Interesting. I watched a Red Means Recording video tutorial on this, and I saw him managing his 3rd party content using folder/tagging. This really brought me to this conversation.

So is the Triaz application capable of being pointed at my existing sample library location without it needing to "import(copy)" that content into its local directory tree? Is that why you are using symbolic links? And those symbolic links can point to the higher level folders (and auto scan all subs), or how is this working out for you?

Okay, I ran some experiments to see how to set it up as it's new to me too. I attached an image below to show the results.

I used two symbolic links. The first goes to a folder named "Focusrite" and the second to a folder called "TestGroup". First things first, after either placing a folder or a symbolic link in the Triaz User folder, you have to click the Refresh button in order for them to show up in the User Samples collection (refresh button is circled in red on the attached image).

The Root folder that is linked will show up as the name of a collection (in this case, Focusrite and TestGroup). In the image shown, I clicked on the collection TestGroup. When TestGroup is selected, the first level of sub-directories are folders named Drums and Synths -- you'll notice they are interpreted as "Drums" and "Synths" in blue text under the header "Drum." The sub-directories contained within Drums are Kick and Snare, and within Synths are Modal and Moog (green arrows show folder structure). Notice that these all show up under the header Tag. I distributed three samples (STE-000 through -002) among 3 of the 4 folders (kick, snare, modal), and they show up under the header Samples. If I were to click on blue-text Drums, only STE-000 and STE-001 will show, and if I click on blue-text Synths, only STE-002 will show.

Hopefully this gives you an idea of what you may expect. I'm next going to try nesting an additional layer of sub-directories to see how it gets treated.

Thank you SO much for this! Ive been seeking this exact info before making this purchase.

So I can use symbolic links with the **full version**, but not the demo version.

And the Triaz indexer scans ALL sub folders beneath the root folder, but only names them based on the top 2 levels of folders? This seems to be what you created above.

I have a "library\" folder with 50+ sub folders, and those subs have numerous subs. (formatted to *mostly* meet file system length requirements). It sounds like I will want to make symbolic links for each sub folder under my main "library\" folder, and then Triaz will map that content using the symbolic link as the label. If I have "kicks, hats, bass, toms, triangles" folders under the main folder, I will see categories for each, like your STE-001, STE-002, but mine would be "kick, hat, etc".

[KBSoundSmith]

Another thing Im confused about -- the "user samples" import feature says "it uses the first 2 folder levels of sample packs..."

Does this mean it wont index things 3 or more levels down, or that it just uses the top 2 folder levels to NAME/TAG content while still indexing deeper? These details are extremely important to me, and are the only things stopping me from making this purchase.

You posted this as I was writing my last post, and it anticipates what I was going to do as a follow-up, so this should answer your question. Another attached image below.

What I did was add an additional layer of sub-directories. In the folder Kick, I added two folders named Click and Body. I then gave each of them a sample, STE-003 and STE-004.

You'll notice that the folder names "Click" and "Body" do not show up in the tags at all -- their names are ignored and not included. However, their contents show up (as you can see, STE-003 and STE-004 are available int he Sample selection).

So to recap the folder structure...

TestGroup -> Drums -> Kicks -> Click or Body

TestGroup shows up as a User Collection. Drums show up as blue-text under the header "Drum". Kicks show up under Tag. The next level of folders (Click and Body) are ignored, but their content is available for selection in the Samples selection.

Hope that helps.

[KBSoundSmith]

don't know about the demo, i've got the full version and can add any sample folders i like to the user samples/presets folder

Ok. This is HUGE for me, and really the only way I will buy. I have to be able to feed my library into the indexer, or adding individual samples would take a year lol. I have 2+TB of various material, including the whole K14 nonsense, etc, and I need to know if this can mass-import/index.

It will "tag" samples by using the name of the folders they reside in. As mentioned earlier in the thread (by someone else, credit due), I'm using symbolic links (as mentioned elsewhere in the thread) to setup my folders so I don't have to copy samples and waste disk space.

Interesting. I watched a Red Means Recording video tutorial on this, and I saw him managing his 3rd party content using folder/tagging. This really brought me to this conversation.

So is the Triaz application capable of being pointed at my existing sample library location without it needing to "import(copy)" that content into its local directory tree? Is that why you are using symbolic links? And those symbolic links can point to the higher level folders (and auto scan all subs), or how is this working out for you?

Okay, I ran some experiments to see how to set it up as it's new to me too. I attached an image below to show the results.

I used two symbolic links. The first goes to a folder named "Focusrite" and the second to a folder called "TestGroup". First things first, after either placing a folder or a symbolic link in the Triaz User folder, you have to click the Refresh button in order for them to show up in the User Samples collection (refresh button is circled in red on the attached image).

The Root folder that is linked will show up as the name of a collection (in this case, Focusrite and TestGroup). In the image shown, I clicked on the collection TestGroup. When TestGroup is selected, the first level of sub-directories are folders named Drums and Synths -- you'll notice they are interpreted as "Drums" and "Synths" in blue text under the header "Drum." The sub-directories contained within Drums are Kick and Snare, and within Synths are Modal and Moog (green arrows show folder structure). Notice that these all show up under the header Tag. I distributed three samples (STE-000 through -002) among 3 of the 4 folders (kick, snare, modal), and they show up under the header Samples. If I were to click on blue-text Drums, only STE-000 and STE-001 will show, and if I click on blue-text Synths, only STE-002 will show.

Hopefully this gives you an idea of what you may expect. I'm next going to try nesting an additional layer of sub-directories to see how it gets treated.

Thank you SO much for this! Ive been seeking this exact info before making this purchase.

So I can use symbolic links with the **full version**, but not the demo version.

And the Triaz indexer scans ALL sub folders beneath the root folder, but only names them based on the top 2 levels of folders? This seems to be what you created above.

I have a "library\" folder with 50+ sub folders, and those subs have numerous subs. (formatted to *mostly* meet file system length requirements). It sounds like I will want to make symbolic links for each sub folder under my main "library\" folder, and then Triaz will map that content using the symbolic link as the label. If I have "kicks, hats, bass, toms, triangles" folders under the main folder, I will see categories for each, like your STE-001, STE-002, but mine would be "kick, hat, etc".

Haha, seems we cross-posted again.

The symbolic links will work with the demo as well, I tried that before buying myself. I only just now added the second folder for this test. Remember, you have to manually hit the refresh button for the samples to get updated. Regarding symbolic links, make sure to investigate those, as there is a distinction among Soft, Hard, and so on -- I'm on Windows and I'm using the Link Shell Extension and ultimately using the Junction option by the end of the chain of actions. (EDIT: to be clear, you may have to experiment here, if the samples aren't showing after hitting refresh, it may be you need to troubleshoot the symbolic links, the problem shouldn't be on the end of Triaz)

Yes, Triaz will scan all of the contents of the folders, but the Root folder will show up as Collection, the first layer within that will show up under header Drum, the next layer under header Tag, and remaining layers will have their contents available for use, but the directories will not display.

So yes, you'll probably have to use multiple symbolic links at various levels for a sample collection as populated as yours.

[Milkman]

Another thing Im confused about -- the "user samples" import feature says "it uses the first 2 folder levels of sample packs..."

Does this mean it wont index things 3 or more levels down, or that it just uses the top 2 folder levels to NAME/TAG content while still indexing deeper? These details are extremely important to me, and are the only things stopping me from making this purchase.

You posted this as I was writing my last post, and it anticipates what I was going to do as a follow-up, so this should answer your question. Another attached image below.

What I did was add an additional layer of sub-directories. In the folder Kick, I added two folders named Click and Body. I then gave each of them a sample, STE-003 and STE-004.

You'll notice that the folder names "Click" and "Body" do not show up in the tags at all -- their names are ignored and not included. However, their contents show up (as you can see, STE-003 and STE-004 are available int he Sample selection).

So to recap the folder structure...

TestGroup -> Drums -> Kicks -> Click or Body

TestGroup shows up as a User Collection. Drums show up as blue-text under the header "Drum". Kicks show up under Tag. The next level of folders (Click and Body) are ignored, but their content is available for selection in the Samples selection.

Hope that helps.

What you are doing here is making or breaking the sale for Wave Alchemy, lol.

I needed to see this because my library is huge, I have many projects with existing sample assets in them that I will need to eventually migrate, and I need to be able to see SOME part of my older expansion content naming convention inside Triaz to keep everything from going insane. I think I can make this work, and the only reason I know this is your help here.

THANK YOU!!! If you need any help routing anything inside Bitwig, or any midi sync of sysadmin stuff, let me know lol. Those are my areas of expertise.

[Milkman]

Ok. This is HUGE for me, and really the only way I will buy. I have to be able to feed my library into the indexer, or adding individual samples would take a year lol. I have 2+TB of various material, including the whole K14 nonsense, etc, and I need to know if this can mass-import/index.

It will "tag" samples by using the name of the folders they reside in. As mentioned earlier in the thread (by someone else, credit due), I'm using symbolic links (as mentioned elsewhere in the thread) to setup my folders so I don't have to copy samples and waste disk space.

Interesting. I watched a Red Means Recording video tutorial on this, and I saw him managing his 3rd party content using folder/tagging. This really brought me to this conversation.

So is the Triaz application capable of being pointed at my existing sample library location without it needing to "import(copy)" that content into its local directory tree? Is that why you are using symbolic links? And those symbolic links can point to the higher level folders (and auto scan all subs), or how is this working out for you?

Okay, I ran some experiments to see how to set it up as it's new to me too. I attached an image below to show the results.

I used two symbolic links. The first goes to a folder named "Focusrite" and the second to a folder called "TestGroup". First things first, after either placing a folder or a symbolic link in the Triaz User folder, you have to click the Refresh button in order for them to show up in the User Samples collection (refresh button is circled in red on the attached image).

The Root folder that is linked will show up as the name of a collection (in this case, Focusrite and TestGroup). In the image shown, I clicked on the collection TestGroup. When TestGroup is selected, the first level of sub-directories are folders named Drums and Synths -- you'll notice they are interpreted as "Drums" and "Synths" in blue text under the header "Drum." The sub-directories contained within Drums are Kick and Snare, and within Synths are Modal and Moog (green arrows show folder structure). Notice that these all show up under the header Tag. I distributed three samples (STE-000 through -002) among 3 of the 4 folders (kick, snare, modal), and they show up under the header Samples. If I were to click on blue-text Drums, only STE-000 and STE-001 will show, and if I click on blue-text Synths, only STE-002 will show.

Hopefully this gives you an idea of what you may expect. I'm next going to try nesting an additional layer of sub-directories to see how it gets treated.

Thank you SO much for this! Ive been seeking this exact info before making this purchase.

So I can use symbolic links with the **full version**, but not the demo version.

And the Triaz indexer scans ALL sub folders beneath the root folder, but only names them based on the top 2 levels of folders? This seems to be what you created above.

I have a "library\" folder with 50+ sub folders, and those subs have numerous subs. (formatted to *mostly* meet file system length requirements). It sounds like I will want to make symbolic links for each sub folder under my main "library\" folder, and then Triaz will map that content using the symbolic link as the label. If I have "kicks, hats, bass, toms, triangles" folders under the main folder, I will see categories for each, like your STE-001, STE-002, but mine would be "kick, hat, etc".

Haha, seems we cross-posted again.

The symbolic links will work with the demo as well, I tried that before buying myself. I only just now added the second folder for this test. Remember, you have to manually hit the refresh button for the samples to get updated. Regarding symbolic links, make sure to investigate those, as there is a distinction among Soft, Hard, and so on -- I'm on Windows and I'm using the Link Shell Extension and ultimately using the Junction option by the end of the chain of actions. (EDIT: to be clear, you may have to experiment here, if the samples aren't showing after hitting refresh, it may be you need to troubleshoot the symbolic links, the problem shouldn't be on the end of Triaz)

Yes, Triaz will scan all of the contents of the folders, but the Root folder will show up as Collection, the first layer within that will show up under header Drum, the next layer under header Tag, and remaining layers will have their contents available for use, but the directories will not display.

So yes, you'll probably have to use multiple symbolic links at various levels for a sample collection as populated as yours.

lmao @ the simultaneous posts!

Wait, so you are using a shell extension to do this, ahhh. I expected simple links would work, but creating true symbolic links wasnt what I was expecting.

Win10 user here -- looks like I can mlink this from a command prompt. Last time I managed file systems like this was inside a domain controller at work, and I've never used a desktop to do it.

Looks like I can:
F:\library>mklink /d Main library
symbolic link created for Main <<===>> library

Then I can drop that link into \Triaz\User Samples\ and then hit refresh, and Triaz will go to work on the top 2 levels of folders inside f:\library\level 1\level 2\

I think I have this. Ill test this in a moment.

[KBSoundSmith]

Glad to help. With such a large sample library, I'd be slow-walking this too just to make sure it works alright.

Regarding the shell extension, I found when trying to do the mklink in the command prompt that I couldn't get the symbolic links to work -- even though I used Admin and in Admin mode, it kept coming up as access denied. I didn't have the patience to troubleshoot since my demo period was already running, so I got the Link Shell Extension here:

https://schinagl.priv.at/nt/hardlinkshe ... nsion.html

Maybe you won't need it, but if so, that's what I used.

[seangm]

Yeah I reported something similar earlier in this thread. The midi export doesn't seem to work right every time, you get an older pattern when you export midi sometimes. WA responded and said to use the delete (trash can) icon to clear out old patterns and then generate the new pattern. But this isn't a great solution since it is easy to forget to do that every time I want to export and then I end up with a different midi pattern exported than what is currently in the sequencer. I pointed this out but WA never responded after that. They could just auto-clear the midi export buffer when you open the export window and it would solve the issue. I am glad more people are noticing the issue.

Yes, this is not a bug or issue as such, but by design. It is simply the case that the MIDI file for export doesn't change until you render it again. This has a coupe of pros, but I agree it can be confusing if you didn't understand this. We actually changed this a few days ago and it now works exactly as you wrote above, and will be part of the 1.01 update coming soon. Closing the Export window now clears the MIDI file automatically

That's good news, thanks for listening to the feedback.

[Milkman]

Glad to help. With such a large sample library, I'd be slow-walking this too just to make sure it works alright.

Regarding the shell extension, I found when trying to do the mklink in the command prompt that I couldn't get the symbolic links to work -- even though I used Admin and in Admin mode, it kept coming up as access denied. I didn't have the patience to troubleshoot since my demo period was already running, so I got the Link Shell Extension here:

https://schinagl.priv.at/nt/hardlinkshe ... nsion.html

Maybe you won't need it, but if so, that's what I used.

I created the symbolic link using mklink with admin creds (Im a 30+ year netsysadmin with heavy experience in windows, *nix, etc) but Triaz isnt seeing it after a refresh and a restart. I actually copied an entire folder of samples (no subfolders) into the "user samples" area of Triaz, but Triaz doesnt see that either. The only way I can add ANY content to Triaz right now is drag/drop single samples into channels. Creating the symbolic link as a junction also doesnt work.

Am I simply unable to add "user content" until I have a paid license? It seems like maybe so.

I think Im going to need to get in touch with their support - I sent them a pre-sales message yesterday but Im still waiting. I dont want to have to do TOO much to support Triaz in my environment, and Im hoping the dev can make all these things easier in future updates. Or, they will explain that the demo cant do the things Im trying to do.