Any VST delays that can simulate the Keeley Andy Timmons Halo?

[dyross]

Hi folks,

I really love the sound of the Keeley Andy Timmons Halo. It has a dual delay in series setup, where the output of the first delay is mixed with the dry input and sent to the second delay.



The AxeFX can simulate it rather well, in fact, Robert Keeley chimed in with the exact schematic on the Fractal forums:

https://forum.fractalaudio.com/threads/ ... st-2288551

I can get this decently well with multiple instances of a standard delay plugin (I'm using Timeless 3, but many could do it) and routing tricks in Reaper, but it would be really nice if there was a single plugin that could come close.

Any ideas?

Thanks,
David

[dyross]

From Robert Keeley's post:

The input signal is ran into a non-linearity for saturation control and then low pass filtered. The cutoff frequency of the filter is dependent upon the amount of saturation, ranging from 2725Hz to 8750Hz.

The saturated and filtered input is ran into Del1 which has a delay time ratio of 0.75:1 to Del2. The output of the delay is ran through two singleorder filters, an HPF ranging from 0Hz to 300Hz and an LPF ranging from 1000Hz to 8750Hz.

The filtered output is then modulated up to 9ms at full depth. The left Del1 is modulated using a cosine while the right Del1 is modulated with a sine lfo whose rate ranges from 0.1Hz to 10Hz. This modulated output is then scaled by the feedback control and fed back to the input of Del1.

The saturated and filtered input is combined with the Del1 output. The sum of these signals’ phase is changed by 180 degrees and ran into Del2. The output of the delay is ran through two single-order filters, an HPF ranging from 0Hz to 300Hz and an LPF ranging from 1000Hz to 8750Hz.

The filtered output is then modulated up to 15ms at full depth. Del2’s lfo is based on the rate control, with the lfo cross-fading between sine and cosine for the left and right. Essentially at certain points throughout the sweep of the rate control the lfos for Del2 left and right will either be in sync or 90 degrees out of phase. This modulated output is then scaled by the feedback control and fed back to the input of Del2

[DMG68]

Check Late Replies, you may be able to build something similar in that.

[dyross]

Will check that out!

Also, Nembrini Nexus is working pretty well for this. Better UI than Reaper fx containers, IMO.

[Uncle E]

MeldaProduction MTurboDelay can probably do it and it just went on sale for 50% off. Blue Cat Audio Late Replies should be able to do it since it can host other plugins.

- edit - Also the new D16 Sigmund 2. I'll see if it can do the settings dyross posted.

- edit2 - Getting great results with D16 Sigmund 2. It has almost all the routing, filtering, saturation, and modulation capabilities listed above. The only thing I don't think it can do is mix an out of phase dry signal into del2.

[dyross]

MeldaProduction MTurboDelay can probably do it and it just went on sale for 50% off. Blue Cat Audio Late Replies should be able to do it since it can host other plugins.

- edit - Also the new D16 Sigmund 2. I'll see if it can do the settings dyross posted.

- edit2 - Getting great results with D16 Sigmund 2. It has almost all the routing, filtering, saturation, and modulation capabilities listed above. The only thing I don't think it can do is mix an out of phase dry signal into del2.

I downloaded the trial of Sigmund 2 and find the UI a bit impenetrable. Can you send a screenshot?

[Uncle E]

Here you go. Notice the routing, panning, filters (low pass on 1, high pass on 2), and Modulator 2 Phase (that's how you get sine on the first delay and cosine on the second). Delay Line 3 has mostly the same settings as Delay Line 1 (except Modulator 2 instead of Modulator 1) and Delay Line 4 has the same settings as Delay Line 2.

FWIW, I first did it at my office and then did it again when I got on my home computer, and it was pretty easy the second time.

sigmunddelay1and3.jpg

sigmunddelay2and4.jpg

[nonstatic]

BYOME and MXXX should be capable too

[dyross]

Here you go. Notice the routing, panning, filters (low pass on 1, high pass on 2), and Modulator 2 Phase (that's how you get sine on the first delay and cosine on the second). Delay Line 3 has mostly the same settings as Delay Line 1 (except Modulator 2 instead of Modulator 1) and Delay Line 4 has the same settings as Delay Line 2.

FWIW, I first did it at my office and then did it again when I got on my home computer, and it was pretty easy the second time.

sigmunddelay1and3.jpgsigmunddelay2and4.jpg

Ah, cool, thanks. Without trying to nitpick, and without listening to see what is the practical / actual difference in sound, so lots of salt needed, it seems the thing that's missing in their routing modes is the ability to mix the dry input with delay 1 output as an input to delay 2. It looks like only the delay 1 output is going in.

I'll play around and see how it sounds - doesn't need to null with Halo to be worth it

BYOME and MXXX should be capable too

Thanks! I'll check out BYOME. MXXX a bit expensive for this experiment

[dyross]

Looks like I might be able to do this with Zebrify, which I already have

[metalifuxx]

Here you go. Notice the routing, panning, filters (low pass on 1, high pass on 2), and Modulator 2 Phase (that's how you get sine on the first delay and cosine on the second). Delay Line 3 has mostly the same settings as Delay Line 1 (except Modulator 2 instead of Modulator 1) and Delay Line 4 has the same settings as Delay Line 2.

FWIW, I first did it at my office and then did it again when I got on my home computer, and it was pretty easy the second time.




sigmunddelay1and3.jpgsigmunddelay2and4.jpg

Care to share the actual preset when possible?

I remember watching interviews/demo vids with Timmons/Keeley basically saying it was two stereo analog EHX memory man pedals or two echoplexes, but with the digital pedal I was sure that there was something more and fine tuned with some tech geekery goin on with Keeley’s DSP programmer so it could be used in mono or stereo in a live two amp setup without phase problems that a sound guy would have to fix at sound check before a performance.

[Uncle E]

I've had a minor breakthrough with this. If you use the Pre Delay to set the delay times for 1 and 3, you can then use the Loop Delay to create the 9ms chorus sound that Robert Keeley was talking about. I'm pretty sure that's what he meant because 9ms on a modulation delay isn't a perceivable chorus effect. Preset attached.

Also, I set the Delays as 3:1 instead of 3:4 so that the first delay with Delay Lines 2 and 4 will happen as if they were fed the dry signal.