KVR Audio

soulata · Post by **soulata** » Thu Dec 30, 2004 5:42 pm

hi

I'm currently doing some arranging stuff. I get like 4 mediocre bars of chords and melody and have to make a 4 min radio hit out of it (haven't had any success yet).

Anyway, here's my question.

Do you limit yourselves (instrumentwise) when arranging, composing... and do the sounddesign afterwards or what?

I'm thinking funk/pop style here.

thanks

k

CypherOne · Post by **CypherOne** » Thu Dec 30, 2004 5:44 pm

I'm limited by my ability, that's limitation enough

Mighty_Hero · Post by **Mighty_Hero** » Thu Dec 30, 2004 5:46 pm

I personally just record the idea, then later you can change the sounds, drums etc.
I have found that I lose the idea sitting there messing with sounds, instead of say loading a piano, record the bridge, the different parts, and getting the structure down first.

DevonB · Post by **DevonB** » Thu Dec 30, 2004 5:52 pm

I've learned from experience the only thing that stops you is excuses. Push push push, keep going. MAKE yourself complete teh song, even if it sounds like ass. By doing that, I've gotten some of my best work. Granted, sometimes I had 10 versions of a song, but who cares. I tend to write the whole 'section', one piece at a time, and worry about smooth transitions after the fact.

Devon

origami · Post by **origami** » Thu Dec 30, 2004 5:56 pm

I'm just limited by my ignorance. I am now amazed of what I do since it seemed to me unimaginable a year ago...so I just hope I'll be able to do amazing things in a year by what I'm able to now.

but no limits

butter · Post by **butter** » Thu Dec 30, 2004 6:55 pm

i limit myself to 4 or 5 instruments to get the foundation down and worry about tweaking sounds later. I've also found that if i can get the foundation of a song down within 20-30 minutes it's always a lot better than something I struggle with for days on end.

DiLate · Post by **DiLate** » Thu Dec 30, 2004 6:55 pm

Never underestimate the benefits of being a classically trained musician. Attempt, if time permits, to learn an instrument like the piano over the next few years.. you wont believe how it will broaden your understanding of melodic relationships as well as the overall archetecture of the sound your trying to create. With proper training you can even conceive entire sections of a piece in your mind.. assigning sounds to emotions and allowing it time to marinate and mature until your ready to lay it down. I have about 15 years experience on the keys and i consider it my most prized asset. You can always buy equipment, the same is not so for talent.

Good luck with all that you create.. and post some S#it.. i would love to hear what your working on.

DiLate.

lo3q · Post by **lo3q** » Thu Dec 30, 2004 7:15 pm

soulata wrote:hi

I'm currently doing some arranging stuff. I get like 4 mediocre bars of chords and melody and have to make a 4 min radio hit out of it (haven't had any success yet).

Do you mean you're arranging other people's ideas, trying to make complete songs out of them?

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Stupid American Pig · Post by **Stupid American Pig** » Thu Dec 30, 2004 7:17 pm

I agree, try to learn an instrument if you dont play anything. My limitation for songwriting:

I dont sequence with point and click, I dont use arpeggiators, and I dont record anything I or someone working with me hasnt actually playedI see it as a challenge and it has improved my playing quite a bit.

edit: this is a general rule. If the song needs something I cant play or :gulp: an arpeggiator(well no, I just plain wont use an arpeggiator) then I will put it in there.

M'Snah · Post by **M'Snah** » Thu Dec 30, 2004 7:19 pm

TechNoiZ · Post by **TechNoiZ** » Thu Dec 30, 2004 9:06 pm

It never hurts to limit yourself when it comes to putting the ideas together - all the technical shit of setting up sounds and fx just gets in the way of the freeflow of ideas.

Do the production/arranging/sound design after you know how the structure moves along. I always used to add vocals after the main production work was done - but now i'm just laying down the minimum to get the vocal ideas then putting them down as a guide and rebuilding the track around them. If i can i just stick to guitar/keys live for the songwriting bit.

3*s · Post by **3*s** » Thu Dec 30, 2004 10:28 pm

When doing an arrangement, I think beforehand... What kind of sound am I going for? It doesn't have to be something specifically established like "Contemporary Rock" or "Blues." It could be something like "Pop, but with electronic influences around the fills" or "half jazz, half something really abstract that no one's ever heard, with several floydian question/answer type parts." From that, I'll think "what kind of parts would that idea entail? What should the songs form be like based on what I'm going for? How should the tension build? What kind of rhythms, what kind of ensembles, what kind of variations?" From that I get what works and what doesn't. These are my "limitations," although if I get a really good idea during the arrangement, I'm not gonna let my preconceived idea of what I'm going for hold me back. If you're going for a funky pop thing, listen to some arrangements of that genre and do what they do in your own musical words. If you only have 4 bars to work with, you're gonna have to either write some new stuff or do some strong variations.

also:

I, personally, am not a natural at arranging. I come up with ideas like they're no tommorrow, and sometimes variations and parts that work with the original idea will come just like the original, however I'll usually end up with 2 minutes work at the very most. Arranging is more of an intellectual thing for me. I had to study other songs form, orchestration, ensemble techniques, etc, to get good at it. I think this is key if you're a newbie to arranging, or if you have a specific sound you want to achieve. Once you learn how styles are structures, you start to be able to "control" your arrangements. Everything about the sound you can achieve consciously, without running into brick walls, and thinking "this doesn't flow right," or it needs to be longer," or it's "too repetitive."

soulata · Post by **soulata** » Fri Dec 31, 2004 12:22 am

lo3q wrote:Do you mean you're arranging other people's ideas, trying to make complete songs out of them?

yep. it's for the money.

S_A_P wrote:I agree, try to learn an instrument if you dont play anything.

it's not that. i play sax, guitar, piano. (do browse thru my site tho

).

it's just when working for somebody else that it gets to a painful stop. you just have to work with somebody else's ideas and it doesn't work all the time.

thank you all (and keep ideas coming)

k

Steven West · Post by **Steven West** » Fri Dec 31, 2004 4:13 am

Kinda in the same boat myself ATM.

I think you want to convey a good melody, rythem and back beat if need be. I really draw back on goofy effects and details. Maybe just something to add flourish to the chorus or bridge transitions to give 'an idea' of possibilties.

But yeah, if it's 'arranging' just the minimal framework is all that's needed, and then offer and accept ideas from there. I know it's a bitch to do, and it makes me 'feel dirty'... But if there's grubby money involved, slap my ass and call me a whore then!

M'Snah · Post by **M'Snah** » Fri Dec 31, 2004 8:50 am

Songwriting - do you limit yourselves?