Bye bye VST2

[BONES]

Its not so much about upgrades,but more about being able to continue using what you already have.

How is that a problem? The last version of Orion was released in 2011 but, 12.5 years later, I am still using it on a regular basis and it all still works just as well as it ever did.

My main DAW is Studio One, and assuming that the information is correct, Presonus will be forced to stop using VST2's in future DAW updates. So if I want to continue using VST2's (and I do), I will have no other option but to find a DAW that supports CLAP to continue using them.

Or keep using the current version. Nobody is putting a gun to your head and forcing you to upgrade and Studio One is certainly mature enough, sufficiently full-featured, that you don't actually need to upgrade. My bandmate uses Cubase most of the time and he's perfectly happy with his current version, 10.5, which is now 3 or 4 years out of date.

This isn't about "right now" it's about when BA-1 gets updated with features you want that are only available in VST 3.

BA-1 already has all the features I want, I'd get by without any upgrades. There is certainly nothing in the recent 1.5 upgrade that I'd have paid money for.

I'm not sure why you're missing that point?

And I'm not sure why you think it matters in the slightest. There was a time when new and upgraded instruments were worth having but sound quality has now got to a point where I don't feel like it can get meaningfully better so upgrades become a luxury, not the necessity they once felt like.

Same thing applies to Studio One, if the next version has piano roll features that you loved in Orion you will want to move to that version.

Why? I could still be using Orion now if that mattered. It was only by looking into things for reasons completely unrelated to actually doing anything that I realised that Studio One's PR wasn't as good as Orion's, so why would I care if they added features I didn't even realise it was missing?

I mean you're really just begging the question here, you've upgraded your laptop at least three times in the last ten years

Actually, in the last 10 years I have upgraded my laptop around 12 times. But that's purely about taking advantage of bargains and selling older ones while they are still current models, to maximise their sale price. It's about saving money (or spending it a bit more wisely).

Of course, I can easily turn this around - you don't upgrade your laptop every time a new model is released, so why do you feel the need to upgrade your software all the time?

... and flatly moved to Studio One from Orion, if you apply the logic you're applying to this concern for VST3 being pushed on us, you would have never changed platforms or hardware.

Interestingly, the reason we decided to make the move was largely because Korg only released ARP Odyssey as VST3 and I really wanted that plugin. However, having seen how much I sacrificed for that, I very quickly came to wonder why I had gone to all that trouble and expense because it turned out to be a pretty poor decision that cost me a lot in time and effort for what was basically f**k-all benefit (and Korg eventually did a VST2 version anyway). It really wouldn't take much to get me back using Orion full-time, it's only our new album that wasn't originally made in it, so the amount of work would be a lot less than the work I did moving away from it. But it is that experience which informs my current attitude in this scenario - decide in haste, repent at leisure.

[Urs]

the new contract revokes *all* previous agreements.

Where exactly is this in the current VST3 license agreement?

(haven't found it at first glance, but maybe I overlooked it)

First sentence on top of page 6. Scroll top the bottom and click "More Pages".

[SamDi]

Sorry if I should have missed a point. But when Steinberg is going to force developers to drop VST2 - does that mean DAW vendours are also not allowed to support VST2 plugins anymore in the future and they need to disable this feature? Would be bad for all the still running but not maintained plugins.

It's difficult for me to understand what's going on and why. I mean, since VST3 is decades old, Steinberg just could have dropped maintenance and support, five or ten years ago, and for the Apple world VST2 would have run out in average in 3-5 years and after that for the Windows world it would also fade away slowly. Why do they do this unsympathic step, instead just dropping it and playing the cool guy?

[No_Use]

the new contract revokes *all* previous agreements.

Where exactly is this in the current VST3 license agreement?

(haven't found it at first glance, but maybe I overlooked it)

First sentence on top of page 6. Scroll top the bottom and click "More Pages".

Oh right. Wow. Thanks.

edit:
Yeah, I'm late to the party here, sorry.

[No_Use]

Sorry if I should have missed a point. But when Steinberg is going to force developers to drop VST2 - does that mean DAW vendours are also not allowed to support VST2 plugins anymore in the future and they need to disable this feature? Would be bad for all the still running but not maintained plugins.

It's difficult for me to understand what's going on and why. I mean, since VST3 is decades old, Steinberg just could have dropped maintenance and support, five or ten years ago, and for the Apple world VST2 would have run out in average in 3-5 years and after that for the Windows world it would also fade away slowly. Why do they do this unsympathic step, instead just dropping it and playing the cool guy?

That's actually what my question above yours was intended at and as I interpret things (I'm no laywer though), yes, it would mean host developers are no longer allowed to host VST2 plugins.

I mean the previous exception (see above) for DAWs/hosts to still host VST2 plugin seems to be revoked with the current license and I see no new exception there.

Or am I interpreting things wrongly?

edit:
Hm wait, but what if host developers which have a previous license never sign this new one? I'm confused.

[sacer]

Sorry if I should have missed a point. But when Steinberg is going to force developers to drop VST2 - does that mean DAW vendours are also not allowed to support VST2 plugins anymore in the future and they need to disable this feature? Would be bad for all the still running but not maintained plugins.

It's difficult for me to understand what's going on and why. I mean, since VST3 is decades old, Steinberg just could have dropped maintenance and support, five or ten years ago, and for the Apple world VST2 would have run out in average in 3-5 years and after that for the Windows world it would also fade away slowly. Why do they do this unsympathic step, instead just dropping it and playing the cool guy?

If thats the case, we all should avoid to buy anything from Steinberg / Yamaha
It has worked by Waves to move back from their subscription only service and it may work for Steinberg.
It would make everything very complicated. If we want to open older projects, than nothing could be loaded, if you are on bitwig or ableton.
It's damn shit what Steinberg makes. We want backward compatibility.
Also there are lots of plugins like Alchemy, Strobe 2 that are VST2 only - f**k STEINBERG

[TS-12]

Good. All VST plugins should be VST3 long time ago

Good. All VST3 plugins should be CLAP long time ago

CLAP wasn't available long time ago

[machinesworking]

There was a time when new and upgraded instruments were worth having but sound quality has now got to a point where I don't feel like it can get meaningfully better so upgrades become a luxury, not the necessity they once felt like.

That, is 100% beside the point to me. Simply put, I was happy enough with a Mirage, Mac, Moog, and TX81Z in the 80's. All of this just convenience besides maybe granular and other new tech things.

I get your point though, freezing a system that works is far more important than worrying about chasing upgrades. Kind of goes against the KVR way though.

[Music Engineer]

Good. All VST plugins should be VST3 long time ago

Good. All VST3 plugins should be CLAP long time ago

CLAP wasn't available long time ago

CLAP (or something like it) should have been available a long time ago. We had several discussion threads for many years on and off in the development subforum about how badly needed such a free format would be. Most of the time, the gist of these discussions was: yes, we need such a thing but nah - it won't happen. Now it finally did happen - which is a very good thing. Big thanks to all people that made it happen. This will shape the future of audio plugin development for the better.

[pekbro]

I dunno, it sounds like a breach of contract to me (canceling the vst2 thing), especially if folks livelihoods are reliant upon it. While no doubt, nobody has the resources or prerogative to do it, challenging them should at least be doable.

[jamcat]

If thats the case, we all should avoid to buy anything from Steinberg / Yamaha
It has worked by Waves to move back from their subscription only service and it may work for Steinberg.

That makes no sense. Why would Cubase users care about Steinberg’s policies for developers of other DAWs?

And users of those other DAWs already aren’t Steinberg customers. That’s the whole thing about using other DAWs.

It worked against Waves because those were their own customers they were screwing over.

My advice would be to demand better VST3 support from the developers you patronize if they’re half-assing it.

[Greenstorm33]

Better VST3 support isn't going to make my legacy VST2 plugins continue to work. I'll take newer DAW versions over them, but just barely. And there's no reason I should have to make that choice. I wonder if this change even prevents devs from distributing old binaries containing VST2 plugins/hosts.

[jamcat]

I don’t know but I moved away from VST2 years ago. Not just because VST3 is better, but also because I always had an eye on the future, and the writing’s been on the wall for a loooong time. Not to mention, anything that isn’t VST3 also isn’t Apple Silicon anyways, so I don’t think this affects any of us on Mac that much. We’ve all done our house cleaning already. I’ve been prepping for this day for a long time. And here we are.

I bet none of you have 6 months worth of canned beans in a bomb shelter either.

[pekbro]

Mostly I favor vst3 these days, simply because many of the newest plugins are exclusively vst3 for whatever reason. I do maintain vst2.4 as well to cover some older stuff I like that is unavailable in any other format that I use, or due to compatibility issues with the likes of MuLab or whatever.

I do like CLAP when available, tho I don't maintain any plugins exclusively in that format currently.

Leastwise maybe offering a specialized porting service might be worth it to some intrepid engineers?

[Greenstorm33]

I don’t know but I moved away from VST2 years ago. Not just because VST3 is better, but also because I always had an eye on the future, and the writing’s been on the wall for a loooong time. Not to mention, anything that isn’t VST3 also isn’t Apple Silicon anyways, so I don’t think this affects any of us on Mac that much. We’ve all done our house cleaning already. I’ve been prepping for this day for a long time. And here we are.

I bet none of you have 6 months worth of canned beans in a bomb shelter either.

I'm sure if you're on Apple Silicon this doesn't bother you in the slightest. I'm on Windows and I have a small handful of plugins that are never going to get the VST3 treatment that I still enjoy using. I guess the Plugin Grim Reaper was going to come for them eventually but there's no reason it needed to be today.