Differences in usage/sound between Spiff and SplitEQ

[dyross]

How do Spiff and SpitEQ differ in terms of their theoretical and practical ability to affect transients? In terms of specifically boosting / cutting transients (not sustains), how do their seemingly quite different implementations affect sound / usability / artifacts / etc.?

Edit: I'm fully aware that Spiff can't do a lot of what SplitEQ can, in terms of panning and affecting sustains.

Edit 2: I've used both plugins, but not extensively (free trials), so I'm familiar with their workflows but not as much with their strengths/weaknesses/tradeoffs/sound qualities etc.

[Ploki]

Spiff just sounds better. SplitEQ to me sounds watery and artefact, issue with many of these type of tools.

The only "splitEQ" i can muster is Michelangelo. Not sure what Rune did there but it actually works in a musical context.

Also Spiff's "EQ curve" is biasing curve, it doesn't actually "EQ" anything

[dyross]

Spiff just sounds better. SplitEQ to me sounds watery and artefact, issue with many of these type of tools.

The only "splitEQ" i can muster is Michelangelo. Not sure what Rune did there but it actually works in a musical context.

Also Spiff's "EQ curve" is biasing curve, it doesn't actually "EQ" anything

Thanks for the reply. Why do you think that is? No one (other than Rune, but that’s different) has implemented something close to spiff since it came out? Any idea what makes the approach work?

[MJACau]

SplitEQ to me sounds watery and artefact, issue with many of these type of tools.

That's what I found with SplitEQ, it was too easy to make it artefact.

[andymcbain]

Sound quality aside, they're quite different tools. You can just simply boost or cut transients in SplitEQ by controlling the mix of the two "split" sections but it's not simply a "transient designer" in the way that Spiff is. If I'm looking to manipulate a transient in say, a drum sound - Spiff would be my go-to. SplitEQ is allowing you to isolate transients and then apply your own EQ curve to them in addition to just turning them up or down.

Personally I haven't found much use for SplitEQ aside from removing plosives (and it's probably overkill for that!) - and yes, I don't think the algorithm sounds that great either.

[dyross]

Sound quality aside, they're quite different tools. You can just simply boost or cut transients in SplitEQ by controlling the mix of the two "split" sections but it's not simply a "transient designer" in the way that Spiff is. If I'm looking to manipulate a transient in say, a drum sound - Spiff would be my go-to. SplitEQ is allowing you to isolate transients and then apply your own EQ curve to them in addition to just turning them up or down.

Personally I haven't found much use for SplitEQ aside from removing plosives (and it's probably overkill for that!) - and yes, I don't think the algorithm sounds that great either.

Can you elaborate on why you choose spiff for drum purpose? Better suited, or just simpler?

[andymcbain]

Sound quality aside, they're quite different tools. You can just simply boost or cut transients in SplitEQ by controlling the mix of the two "split" sections but it's not simply a "transient designer" in the way that Spiff is. If I'm looking to manipulate a transient in say, a drum sound - Spiff would be my go-to. SplitEQ is allowing you to isolate transients and then apply your own EQ curve to them in addition to just turning them up or down.

Personally I haven't found much use for SplitEQ aside from removing plosives (and it's probably overkill for that!) - and yes, I don't think the algorithm sounds that great either.

Can you elaborate on why you choose spiff for drum purpose? Better suited, or just simpler?

Because Spiff is a transient designer and SplitEQ is an EQ

But yeah, obviously it’s context dependent. If I’m simply looking to boost or reduce transients Spiff is quick to dial in, and you have the flexibility to chose where in the frequency spectrum the transient boost or reduction occurs. To my ears it does what it does well and sounds clean.

SplitEQ is a different concept - it’s more “let’s identify the transient and sustain parts of your sound and let you apply an EQ curve to each” - or boost or reduce amplitude of each part as a whole. It always seemed more of a problem solving tool to me. There’s videos on YouTube of examples where it might come in handy. Main issue though as I mentioned - I just don’t think it sounds that great.

[Ploki]

Spiff just sounds better. SplitEQ to me sounds watery and artefact, issue with many of these type of tools.

The only "splitEQ" i can muster is Michelangelo. Not sure what Rune did there but it actually works in a musical context.

Also Spiff's "EQ curve" is biasing curve, it doesn't actually "EQ" anything

Thanks for the reply. Why do you think that is? No one (other than Rune, but that’s different) has implemented something close to spiff since it came out? Any idea what makes the approach work?

What rune did is more like SplitEQ but actually useful in a musical context - it never sounds processed. But it's also less pronounced.

I haven't heard any plugin being as robust with transients as Spiff, no.
I like Voxengo Transgainer but that one is a single band thing

[aagnello]

Well, you're correct that SplitEQ isn't a transient designer. It's a new approach to dealing with sound. The lead developer, Russell, does a good job of explaining it here:

[bmanic]

Well, you're correct that SplitEQ isn't a transient designer. It's a new approach to dealing with sound. The lead developer, Russell, does a good job of explaining it here:

As always with these things, it is NOT new. It has already been implemented before in numerous other plugins. For instance Melda MXXX has been able to separate transients from sustain material for years already, allowing you to separately process them.

As far as I know, Schwa did it first.. like 15 years ago with that one crazy plugin that allowed you to separate all kinds of audio information and then manipulate it.

.. it's just that Eventide being a "big name" in the industry, can ride on the pedigree and claim it as their invention.


EDIT: Heck, you can probably find some of my old experiments here on KvR where I was doing my "delta" experiments, meaning I was separating the delta (aka "change") using various dynamics processes and then applying different processing to it. Among others I experimented with transient shapers and using the delta of them to add EQ and saturation to it, meaning I already did pretty much exactly this to various things (including over various frequency ranges abusing linear phase filtering to narrow in on a range).

My point is: It's nothing unique nor new. These kinds of ideas and various solutions to achieve them have been around probably for decades. Also it's not the first time somebody tries to take credit for inventing something new when a technique has been around for years or decades (or even a century.. yes I'm looking at you Brainworx aka PA. Mid-Side was a thing before you came along. ).

Would be fun to compile a list of shame for some of these companies. Probably one of the most notable names who managed to patent a well known technique is Bob Katz. His K-Stereo process was a technique that was already used in the late 60s, early 70s yet he somehow managed to patent it. Sintefex also managed to patent dynamic convolution which was bizarre to say the least.

[Ploki]

preach

[Liero]

Hell, the entire history of science is people taking existing stuff and slapping their name on it. *cough*EDISON*cough*

[Igro]

Well, you're correct that SplitEQ isn't a transient designer. It's a new approach to dealing with sound. The lead developer, Russell, does a good job of explaining it here:

As always with these things, it is NOT new. It has already been implemented before in numerous other plugins. For instance Melda MXXX has been able to separate transients from sustain material for years already, allowing you to separately process them.

Hi bmanic! Does the MXXX have already a preset for that or you setup it manually? Thank you.

Added: I see there is a transient/tonal preset in MdynamicsMB.