KVR Audio

ammoniad · Post by **ammoniad** » Fri Dec 31, 2004 12:36 am

I hear people say that CD X or CD Y sound dated. I wonder if people can't enjoy anything old anymore.
I really enjoy NIN but I agree that the "being pissed off" thing has kind of gone its' course. As far as the sound of the disc being dated, could it be that we know too much about the process and it is hard to impress us anymore???

origami · Post by **origami** » Fri Dec 31, 2004 12:39 am

well of course I do enjoy listening to old cds...some examples I love:

can - tago mago
tangerine dream - force majeure
depeche mode - construction time again
skinny puppy - vivisect vi

and so on...

it's just that Pretty hate machine, in my humble opinion, sounds dated...there are 3 or 4 great songs, but the rest are so-so while they sounded spectacular when i first heard them 10 years ago.

Sicklecell666 · Post by **Sicklecell666** » Fri Dec 31, 2004 12:43 am

ammoniad wrote:As far as the sound of the disc being dated, could it be that we know too much about the process and it is hard to impress us anymore???

Not me..Sound is sound..I don't care what the recipe was that made it..In listener mode, I could give a shit how it was done. Downward Spiral is a sonic masterpiece still to this day for me..

Pretty Hate Machine just sounded like what it was; a debut LP from an up & coming back in the day..

vurt · Post by **vurt** » Fri Dec 31, 2004 12:53 am

pretty hate machine is a classic.
downward spiral still floors me too

its not the music thats changed is it

projektio · Post by **projektio** » Fri Dec 31, 2004 1:09 am

Well I definitely agree about some of the comments being made regarding NIN, past and present. I was a huge fan of Pretty Hate Machine when it first came out, because I hadn't heard an "industrial" album before. For me, it was more ground-breaking as a different influence in my own music, as I am certainly a one of the last guys to be born in the 70s.

Eventually I listened to The Downward Spiral, and really like the sound design and concepts that went into it. I would be more inclined to listen to TDS today instead of PHM, simply because I am not in the same place mentally or emotionally today as I was in the late 80s, early 90s. (I am sure that some of you can really agree with that).

Granted the newer material from The Fragile forward has certainly got more "live drums, guitar and bass" in it, I would still recognize the importance that NIN were able to freshen up their sound, and take things in a newer direction, without losing their purpose or sense of musicality.

Someone also brought up Depeche Mode, my all time favorite "electronic" group. They are a classic case in point where a band that started with only synths and drum machines, was able to blossom into other instrumental areas. Take a listen to Construction Time Again, Violater and then a newer album like Exciter, and tell me they sound the same. It is really impressive that they have been able to change their sound so drastically over 20 years, and yet still retain thoughtful lyrics, well written melodies & voicings and intelligent programming...

As for people's tastes in NIN, DP or anyone else for that matter: music always changes. Some people move with the changes, and others prefer the older nostalgic material.

I would like to think both these views have their validity, and neither is ever superior.

projektio

bluedad · Post by **bluedad** » Fri Dec 31, 2004 1:16 am

I still love Pretty Hate Machine.
some of us still never got over teen angst.

BONES · Post by **BONES** » Fri Dec 31, 2004 1:17 am

ammoniad wrote:I hear people say that CD X or CD Y sound dated. I wonder if people can't enjoy anything old anymore.

Sure they can. Lately it has been all I really listen to. But I also agree that Pretty Hate Machine, for some reason, sounds really dated whereas PLAY DEAD's From the Promised Land, produced by John Fryer in the early 80's, still sounds fresh and good. It's just one of those things, I suppose.

projektio wrote:Someone also brought up Depeche Mode, my all time favorite "electronic" group. They are a classic case in point where a band that started with only synths and drum machines, was able to blossom into other instrumental areas.

You can largely thank Flood for that, I believe. He has this thing about getting artists to try things they are distinctly not known for. He was responsible for totally f**king up NITZER EBB's sound but in the case of DEPECHE MODE it seemed to work out OK. Personally I think there is way too much of him in the stuff he produces - it ends up sounding like Flood, not the artist.

origami · Post by **origami** » Fri Dec 31, 2004 1:19 am

However, the latest 2 DM albums are not produced by Flood. In the case of DM, I think Alan Wilder was as responsible or even more than Flood of their characteristic sound.

BONES · Post by **BONES** » Fri Dec 31, 2004 1:23 am

I read an article about the production of either Violator or Songs of Faith and Devotion where they all agreed that it was Flood's idea for them to use more guitars and stuff, although there was already a little bit of guitar on Music For the Masses so I didn't really get it.

Borogove · Post by **Borogove** » Fri Dec 31, 2004 1:23 am

All the NIN albums show a hell of a lot of attention to sound-design detail, which I respect. When I first heard Pretty Hate Machine I was mainly listening to slightly less danceable, slightly narstier industrial stuff, and had the twin responses of "hey, that's a pretty cool bridge between Depeche Mode and Skinny Puppy" and "oh, god, the fans. The fans." Trent could have easily pumped out three more albums over the next three years that sounded exactly like PHM, and didn't - another point in his favor. Downward Spiral was way more ambitious technically and in terms of stylistic range. I suspect that the prog-rock leanings and the long gap between albums did way more to dilute his fan base than any particular production-technical aspect like hardware vs. software, so I'm gonna disagree with Bones' thesis.

I still like listening to PHM, TDS, and The Fragile, and I've never had a really really really toxic relationship to be bitter about.

BONES · Post by **BONES** » Fri Dec 31, 2004 1:32 am

Prety Hate Machine was definitely one of the albums that got me right into the scene, along with The Mind is a Terrible Thing to Taste, but it didn't take long for me to find lots of much better stuff in the genre. The best work of NIN doesn't stand up to the best of Die Krupps or FLA or Numb or Skinny Puppy or loads of other bands like Godheads, Front242, Funker Vogt, etc.

Scot Solida · Post by **Scot Solida** » Fri Dec 31, 2004 1:33 am

BONES wrote:PLAY DEAD's From the Promised Land, produced by John Fryer in the early 80's, still sounds fresh and good.

Holy shit, you aint kidding. What a great record that was. I still have the band's entire catalog on vinyl (never could deal with that re-mastered version on CD). A record that handily trounces the "goth" stuff that came a decade later. Never knew anyone else that knew who they were.

NIN, I never cared for. One or two tracks, but it always seemed so contrived to me. For industrial-meets-guitars, I always preferred Numb's "Christmeister" (which, to my mind was the pinnacle of that whole sound), and before that, Cassandra Complex (who had a sense of humor). Between those bands, Cabaret Voltaire, Click Click, Hula and such, I never really found time for NIN.

daviencrow · Post by **daviencrow** » Fri Dec 31, 2004 4:18 am

I just posted it because I (aside from not knowing somone else had posted this before) thought somone might want to know what he was using on the album he is currently working on.

Has anyone else checked out the surround sound remixed downward spiral. That was pretty interesting , sounded like it would either mix well with drugs or scare you shitless on them

I didn't mean to cause a heated debate or anything. Personally I love bands like Skinny Puppy , KMFDM , Ohgr , amongst several other less mainstream industrial/industrial rock bands (also related music like Hanzel Und Gretyl , Marilyn Manson , and Rammstein). I really could care less what sells well what doesn't sell because I like what I like and you can f**k yourself if you have a poblem with it. Personally I think Trent is a great musician and producer and I have been curious about certain things he has used. I'm sure not everyone who passes through KVR knows about old posts or would even take a moment to use the search , so sorry for posting something that had been posted again.

... Play Nice

Sicklecell666 · Post by **Sicklecell666** » Fri Dec 31, 2004 4:53 am

daviencrow wrote:
I didn't mean to cause a heated debate or anything.

You call THIS a heated debate?!

LOL..

You must have missed out on our Tarnce-A-Crunking-Flabbient threads..

shamann · Post by **shamann** » Fri Dec 31, 2004 5:05 am

Sicklecell666 wrote:You call THIS a heated debate?!

I was just reading through the thread thinking, "My, how civilized." Especially compared to how ugly the last NIN thread got.

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