Bye bye VST2

[donkey tugger]

Most YouTube videos I see are pretty evenly distributed across Live, Logic, Studio One, Cubase, and Pro Tools. But if I see they're using Fruity Loops, I'll click a different video.

But....I made it for yoooouuuuuuuuuu.

frootyloops.gif

[defiantnerd]

In the first place, one shouldn't make the mistake to have a end user perspective in the first place here.

Historically, the devs that are in the business for 20 years mostly all based their projects on VST2.4. Derived from CVSTPlugin base class. When VST3 showed up, everyone wrapped it around their VST2. With AU, they either did nothing and FXPansion had their famous wrapper or they did it themselves: wrapping their VST2 as AU.

With CLAP we are at a point now where you can start a fresh project by just focus on writing your plugin in a simple and free API. Nobody can deny you to use your own code base at any point in the future (which is the large trout a lot of people got slapped with by SMTG).

You can make VST3 and AU versions with 3 lines of additional CMake and you're done. For free, no strings attached. It is even so separated that you probably have not to accept the proprietary license of SMTG and get away with GPL3.

So we have a CLAP first plugin development now, a stable base.

BUT: CLAP has features that are superior to AU and VST3, like the non destructive modulation, the preset discovery, etc. The more plugins will offer those possibilities, the more the hosts might want to offer such features to their users - they can do this by implementing CLAP hosting, which is also so much easier to implement than with VST3 or AU.

From the plugin developers view, it is free without having any drawbacks and you don't loose compatibility with hosts from companies that might have no motivation to implement CLAP.

The end user will benefit on the long run.

[Urs]

[Sascha Franck]

Thanks, defiantnerd, haven't been aware of some of that.

[ckoe]

I don't think Ableton can handle CLAP in the next 10 years, they have had big problems with VST3 a long time and WASAPI is still missing.

[Music Engineer]

I don't think Ableton can handle CLAP in the next 10 years, they have had big problems with VST3 a long time.

I tend to think that this fact may even increase the likelihood that Ableton will embrace CLAP. I guess, implementing VST3 was very difficult for them. It has a reputation of being very complicated and CLAP should be easier. Even some plugin manufacturers found it very hard to implement VST3 - and hosting is supposedly even harder. It was said in this thread that the hosting side of VST3 is even less well documented than the plugin side. And it's one of CLAP's goals to make it easier to implement plugins *and* hosts.

[ckoe]

Ok, that's a good point, then I hope this story would be a catalyst for CLAP.

[jens]

Most YouTube videos I see are pretty evenly distributed across Live, Logic, Studio One, Cubase, and Pro Tools. But if I see they're using Fruity Loops, I'll click a different video.

But....I made it for yoooouuuuuuuuuu.


frootyloops.gif

[jens]

I don't think Ableton can handle CLAP in the next 10 years, they have had big problems with VST3 a long time.

I tend to think that this fact may even increase the likelihood that Ableton will embrace CLAP. I guess, implementing VST3 was very difficult for them. It has a reputation of being very complicated and CLAP should be easier. Even some plugin manufacturers found it very hard to implement VST3 - and hosting is supposedly even harder.

Yes, even Cockos struggled for years with it. They had to keep fixing things/adding hacks.

[ElVincente]

I wonder how are the protools dev about clap now ? When was clap announced I remember seeing them among the officially interested companies.
Were there some kind of announcement of them dropping the idea ? If not, I won't be surprised if they were the next Daw to adopt it.

[machinesworking]

I don't think Ableton can handle CLAP in the next 10 years, they have had big problems with VST3 a long time.

I tend to think that this fact may even increase the likelihood that Ableton will embrace CLAP. I guess, implementing VST3 was very difficult for them. It has a reputation of being very complicated and CLAP should be easier. Even some plugin manufacturers found it very hard to implement VST3 - and hosting is supposedly even harder.

Yes, even Cockos struggled for years with it. They had to keep fixing things/adding hacks.

Yep only hard crashes in Reaper I've ever had were with VST3 plugins.
VST3 continues to be the most unstable format on Mac OS in Live and DP. Backing up the suspicion that hosts struggle with poorly documented API protocol etc.

[bk]

I don't think Ableton can handle CLAP in the next 10 years, they have had big problems with VST3 a long time.

I tend to think that this fact may even increase the likelihood that Ableton will embrace CLAP. I guess, implementing VST3 was very difficult for them. It has a reputation of being very complicated and CLAP should be easier. Even some plugin manufacturers found it very hard to implement VST3 - and hosting is supposedly even harder.

Yes, even Cockos struggled for years with it. They had to keep fixing things/adding hacks.

Yep only hard crashes in Reaper I've ever had were with VST3 plugins.
VST3 continues to be the most unstable format on Mac OS in Live and DP. Backing up the suspicion that hosts struggle with poorly documented API protocol etc.

Wait, that can't be right...Jamcat says VST3 works great for years. There are no problems with it...
It must be our systems.

[jamcat]

Read what everyone before you actually said. And what I've said. The problems originate in the way specific hosts implement VST3. If you want VST3 work, make sure you use a DAW that has properly implemented VST3. At the very least, that includes Cubase and Studio One.

I've used VST3 for years, and I've had no problems. I never have any crashes with VST3. But I use Studio One, so my experience is probably a lot different from someone using a host with a history of poor implementation.

[ampetrosillo]

Read what everyone before you actually said. And what I've said. The problems originate in the way specific hosts implement VST3. If you want VST3 work, make sure you use a DAW that has properly implemented VST3. At the very least, that includes Cubase and Studio One.

I've used VST3 for years, and I've had no problems. I never have any crashes with VST3. But I use Studio One, so my experience is probably a lot different from someone using a host with a history of poor implementation.

You know that quote, "if you think everybody's an arsehole, maybe YOU are the arsehole"?

If essentially all hosts (including Reaper, which has a very limited selection of stock plugins, therefore it should have more of an incentive to make VST3 work) have problems implementing VST3, how is it the DAW makers' fault?

[Calagan]

How long did it take Reaper to implement CLAP ?
I think it was very quick. It doesn’t seem to be rocket science. Maybe it will be easy for Ableton, and it’s just a question of strategic choice (that seems to be the right moment, given the mess with Steinberg).