Live 12 or Bitwig 5.1

[pizzatime1]

Waveform 13 has NOW entered the building lol .

never heard of it.

[fedexnman]

It just came out today .

[pizzatime1]

I'm a Bitwig fanboy.. just wasted a load of money trying Live 12 and a Push 3 so will happily skip that cheers.

[apoclypse]

Then there is the way macros work in Bitwig. Ableton doesn't really have Device Pages, so setting up a macro is pretty simple.

In Bitwig, add a Macro modulator, activate it and modulate as many parameters as you want. Couldn't be easier...

Not when you have a multi device chain. It's not as simple as you are trying to paint. It's tedious and involved imo. Preset pages can map any parameter in a chain, works very similar to Ableton in that regard. However those are tied to the preset as implied, not the device. If you want to add macros to a device chain you need to first add a macro modulator to a chain to whatever parameter you are trying to manipulate.

The first time I created a chain and tried to map a parameter to the chain I couldn't figure out why it wouldn't let me map to a reverb mix knob inside of the chain. Until I saw that there is a fundamental difference between how Bitwig handles Device and Preset remote pages. If I have a fairly complex chain, having to create a macro modulator for each parameter gets old really fast.

In Ableton, that's non issue. Just create your chain, hit map and pick a macro knob and click the parameter you want to manipulate, it doesn't matter where in the chain it is.

[apoclypse]

All electronic music is nerdy, period!

All music is nerdy period. If you've ever talked to a musician they are nerdy as it gets.

[apoclypse]

You want to side chain, there isn't a simple compressor you setup (you can use the Dynamic device though), you have multiple ways of doing it but the most common is to setup a Tool device and use a modulator to automate the gain. It's a little more involved than just dropping a Compressor in Ableton, going to the Sidechain section and picking your drum/kick.

Side-chaining in Bitwig is so easy it feels like cheating.

There are multiple approaches, but I mainly use a project level env modulator to side-chain multiple tracks levels at once. It is fast, doesn't require adding any devices at all, and can be very precisely edited without having to find a device on a track.

IMO, dropping a compressor device onto each track you want to side-chain is outdated.

Project level modulators are cool. no doubt about that. But again this is something somebody who knows how modulators work would need to figure out. While compressor sidechaining is "old school" it's a pretty well established workflow in pretty much every DAW.

[Lazarus451]

Try the demos and pick the one you like more People who make good music, don't have time for DAW feuds. Live, Bitwig, Logic, FL, Cubase, Reaper etc. all good.

[pdxindy]

Not when you have a multi device chain. It's not as simple as you are trying to paint.

For example, I add say Bazille to a track. Then I nest the Chorus+ device, and a Valhalla reverb, and an EQ inside the Bazille device.

Then I add a Preset Remote page and map what I want. Then I right click on the Bazille device and use the Save as Default command and now every time I load Bazille it will have those macros and that device chain... plus any modulators I used as well.

Every single Bitwig device and CLAP/VST plugin can have its own custom configured default state with macros, modulators and for instruments, nested devices.

[SLiC]

All electronic music is nerdy, period!

All music is nerdy period. If you've ever talked to a musician they are nerdy as it gets.

I liked like to think us Guitarists are less nerdy...now back to replacing my EL84s for a better tolerance matched pair to improve the tone on my pre CBS Strat

[machinesworking]

All electronic music is nerdy, period!

All music is nerdy period. If you've ever talked to a musician they are nerdy as it gets.

I liked like to think us Guitarists are less nerdy...now back to replacing my EL84s for a better tolerance matched pair to improve the tone on my pre CBS Strat

I get the point, but as primarily a guitar player, I had the same single guitar for 25 years, through the same amp and FX chain. It wasn't until I went in the box that things got nerdy. I broke down a while ago and got another guitar. Mostly though I found a couple combinations I like and stuck with it. There's this whole collector thing that happens, a friend just posted a squire bass he bought that's one of those cheap gems that he primarily uses, but now that the kids moved out he bought four more basses.

[SLiC]

Not when you have a multi device chain. It's not as simple as you are trying to paint.

For example, I add say Bazille to a track. Then I nest the Chorus+ device, and a Valhalla reverb, and an EQ inside the Bazille device.

Then I add a Preset Remote page and map what I want. Then I right click on the Bazille device and use the Save as Default command and now every time I load Bazille it will have those macros and that device chain... plus any modulators I used as well.

Every single Bitwig device and CLAP/VST plugin can have its own custom configured default state with macros, modulators and for instruments, nested devices.

I am not sure how any of that is really different to the rack in Live? You can have midi fx rack, instrument rack and fx racks with up to 16 macros and multiple snapshots (variations) and save it all as an instrument....I can do the same in Studio One with multi-instrument.

[SLiC]

All electronic music is nerdy, period!

All music is nerdy period. If you've ever talked to a musician they are nerdy as it gets.

I liked like to think us Guitarists are less nerdy...now back to replacing my EL84s for a better tolerance matched pair to improve the tone on my pre CBS Strat

I get the point, but as primarily a guitar player, I had the same single guitar for 25 years, through the same amp and FX chain. It wasn't until I went in the box that things got nerdy. I broke down a while ago and got another guitar. Mostly though I found a couple combinations I like and stuck with it. There's this whole collector thing that happens, a friend just posted a squire bass he bought that's one of those cheap gems that he primarily uses, but now that the kids moved out he bought four more basses.

When I played live I had a very basic setup based around a telecaster and Blues Jnr...no gear lust, just gig lust! Once I stopped playing live (and stopped practicing) it all went nerdy...the the gear would compensate for me not putting the time in anymore!

[SLiC]

dp

[pdxindy]

Project level modulators are cool. no doubt about that. But again this is something somebody who knows how modulators work would need to figure out. While compressor sidechaining is "old school" it's a pretty well established workflow in pretty much every DAW.

I'm glad Bitwig comes up with news ways to do stuff. After using project level modulators for side-chaining, I wouldn't want to go back to that "old school" way.

But if someone wants to do it that way, that's right at hand too.

[pdxindy]

For example, I add say Bazille to a track. Then I nest the Chorus+ device, and a Valhalla reverb, and an EQ inside the Bazille device.

Then I add a Preset Remote page and map what I want. Then I right click on the Bazille device and use the Save as Default command and now every time I load Bazille it will have those macros and that device chain... plus any modulators I used as well.

Every single Bitwig device and CLAP/VST plugin can have its own custom configured default state with macros, modulators and for instruments, nested devices.

I am not sure how any of that is really different to the rack in Live? You can have midi fx rack, instrument rack and fx racks with up to 16 macros and multiple snapshots (variations) and save it all as an instrument....I can do the same in Studio One with multi-instrument.

I was responding to the claim that it required a complex setup with modulators in Bitwig. Not that it's different/better than a Live rack.

The only difference in Bitwig is that no container device is needed. Every device can have it's own macro controls and doesn't need to be inside a rack like Live (unless this has changed in Live 12?)

And of course every device can have it's own modulators too... plus nested devices where applicable, but that is getting into a broader discussion.