E Sharp?

[careyletendre]

I heard someone identify some notes while playing the piano as E sharp; wouldn't that be an F? I thought sharps and flats were only the black keys on the piano.

[BertKoor]

If you're in key of F#, then what's the (major) seventh? Right: E#. Because the F is already taken.

[Farnaby]

Without going into this in huge detail it is a matter of musical 'spelling'. If F# is one semi-tone higher than F, then E# is one semi-tone higher than E. Yes E# is the same key as F on the piano. Similarly Cb is the same note as B.

I'm sure someone else will provide the more extensive version if you need it.

[Watchful]

BertKoor is right. There's not much call for E#, because "the key of F#" is pretty much always given as "the key of Gb," so it's not too common to think of it that way.

But Cb is pretty common when transposing instruments (especially woodwinds or horns): it's easier in some situations for some musicians with these instruments to read a Cb score than one in B.

With that in mind, it's possible *in some circumstances* to transpose a piece for another instrument to F# instead of Gb, and that's where you use E#, since--as BertKoor said--F is already taken.

Farnaby was a second away from adding that E#/F might be confusing, but not as confusing as putting F/F# on the same sheet of music for someone who reads scores by sight.

These are all good answers.

[careyletendre]

Thank you very much, everyone, for taking the time to answer my question. As may be apparent, I am not too familiar with music theory.

My take-away is that it is a lot more complicated and nuanced than just looking at the keys on a keyboard.

[Watchful]

Indeed, it's all the same--but emphasis can change based on your instrument.

[BertKoor]

Complicated? The simplicity is that each letter from A to G occurs exactly once in a 7-tone scale, with added sharps & flats where needed.

[Jafo]

This is only true in 12-tone equal temperament, which basically detunes harmonics and their relationships away from simple integers. If you want to strain tour brain, this Wikipedia article is really good. (Some low-brow trolls dispute parts of it; they're wrong.)

[careyletendre]

Complicated? The simplicity is that each letter from A to G occurs exactly once in a 7-tone scale, with added sharps & flats where needed.

So like chess; easy to learn, difficult to master.

[N__K]

From contemporary perspective, and in reference to 12-TET tuning, part of the "complexity" with sharps/flats is due to traditional staff representing only the 7 "white" notes on the piano keyboard. Modification signs are needed to write other pitches to the staff.

It's somewhat comparable to languages in which only the consonants are written, with additional marks needed to indicate vowels.

In other words, it's a matter of convention about how to write things.
For folks whose primary frame of reference is a 12-TET, equally spaced MIDI piano roll of a DAW, the whole "ABCDEFG + sharps and/or flats" naming convention may seem weird.

Looking forward, assigning unique name for each of 12TET pitches (and marking deviations from them with cents etc.) might simplify things on conceptual level, but the old traditions persist for various reasons - as they do with languages.

Related thread: viewtopic.php?t=603289

[jamcat]

The black and white keys on the keyboard fill your head with lies.

What I mean of course is it leads people to think that A♯ and B♭ are the same note, and C is always C.

Neither are actually true.

[Jamface]

Thank you very much, everyone, for taking the time to answer my question. As may be apparent, I am not too familiar with music theory.

My take-away is that it is a lot more complicated and nuanced than just looking at the keys on a keyboard.

Yeah, it’s complicated explanations for simple things.

[RealWinner]

Same thing but no one would say e sharp unless using some jazz modes or scale

[Farnaby]

Same thing but no one would say e sharp unless using some jazz modes or scale

But since most music does use modes and scales, people indeed do say E sharp when required. You can see it in lots of published music - along with B sharp, C flat and F flat. You also see double sharps and double flats from time to time. It's all a matter of musical 'spelling' as BertKoor implied above.

[sjm]

Imagine you are playing a I III IV iv in A. Your iii chord is C#m, which is C# E G#. When that becomes a major, you raise the third a semitone giving you C# E# G#. Those are the notes in a C# major chord - the same letters as in a C major chord, albeit all sharp.

I find it highly unlikely that the only music genre to ever feature a I III progression in A is jazz.