iLOK warning

[rj0]

10+ years with an iLok dongle. Multiple machines, OS levels. Nice to know that when I upgrade hardware/OSs (or developers go under) that licenses will still be easily accessible.

[Recourt]

This thread reminded me to purchase a new ilok3 dongle, just incase there are ever any issues with my gen1. They even come in neat colors now!!!

[fredliau41]

used ilok, suddenly after upgrading motherboard, all the licenses were stuck and were showed as offline, couldn't use them anymore, had to request for reset. thankfully almost all of the publishers reset

[musicartist99]

That's the problem with any centralized large service, it's too much in a single place.

When that single place gets some problems, too many services will simply not work.

For example, if all the plugins someone owned depended on iLok, and the service would stopped working, that means it would be impossible to do any work.

[spigmu]

I'm an ardent supporter of copy protection, and I feel for the plugin developers who can't take it on themselves and made the choice to have another party deal with it. My issue with Pace has been their consistent "The customer is always wrong" mantra since their inception. I have a dongle, and if I want the plugin enough it's a necessary evil. But it does take much of the wind out of whatever good vibe the developer has.

[MrJubbly]

"I'm iLok-free and always will be, Baby!"...

I have a dongle, and if I want the plugin enough it's a necessary evil. But it does take much of the wind out of whatever good vibe the developer has.

In my experience, for every iLok-shackled product I had interest in, there's always an alternative product. Typically, from a developer who respects and treats their users fairly enough, not to impose such a burdensome penalty upon their paying customers.

I have even politely refused an offer from a developer who offered me a free NFR licence for their iLok product, in exchange for installing iLok and reporting back any issues experienced, after I had reached out to them to request an iLok-less version of their flagship plugin which I had wanted (offering to pay them many times the RRP). However, I had to reiterate to them my distaste for that particular form of DRM and installing it on my new device would defeat the entire purpose of my intention.

I've had bad experiences using iLok on my previous device and I've heard much worse accounts from others, to never want to put myself in that unnecessary position.

Every plugin I own is a non-iLok product and so shall it remain.

[plexuss]

Dongle Wars

[Mathematics]

I've been using iLok dongles for about 15 years. I've never had one fail...yet. I would suggest not using your computer system to register licenses next time. I have about 4 iLoks with all my licenses spread across them. I only have one activation per license with spares in my account just in case. I'm sure you haven't used all your activations, right? If so, just buy the latest dongle from B&H Photo with the PayBoo card so you can avoid paying tax, and activate the available licenses in your account.

The only thing I don't like is their policy on lost or stolen dongles. They say you can submit a form reporting the incident...but when it comes to replacing those licenses...I've heard horror stories. I don't know if that is still true today, but a couple years back, I wrote a post addressing that issue then and it wasn't good for people with stolen or lost dongles. Damaged dongles is one thing because you can send it into PACE. Stolen or Lost...without the Theft and Loss Coverage...oof. Good luck with that.

[wayford]

I think I figured out the two aisles of this debate.

When I see people who say that they love iLok, most of the time it's macOS users. When I see people who say they hate iLok, most of the time it's Windows users.

There is the answer, I believe. iLok on Mac and Windows is quite different, and for a very simple reason. It's not just about the way different OSes operate, more so about the fact that most efforts to remove protection happen on Windows.

Remember when Universal Audio came out with Spark and the Windows versions took noticeably longer to come out? This was because they were trying to find every single way to tighten the security with iLok. With the price drops on their plugins, they are heavily relying on the fact that they are the only way people can access their plugins. It does make sense, but it's to the point where you can't transfer licenses. It's them saying "we know you wanted UA stuff natively for a long time, it's out now and cheaper than others - you can only get it by buying it from us" and it makes sense, this has seemed to work very well.

Piracy would massively undermine this strategy, so they decided to go with iLok Cloud/dongle only. Both of these obviously are not possibly to reverse engineer or anything of that kind - the licenses are stored either on PACE's servers or on the dongle, not the user's computer.

Anyway, with that in mind, let's remember the tpkd.sys file which was iLok's windows driver implementation some years ago. Where did they place it? System32...

Now, I don't have to explain why that's obviously bad, but it is straight up interfering with fundamental OS resources. The only other audio company which interfered with system resources was Tone2 - it was a massive controversy. PACE ended up removing the tpdk.sys file, but still it shows just how far they were willing to go to avoid windows piracy.

And it does make perfect sense. You don't even need to work on anti-piracy measures on Mac as hard simply because most macOS users are (based on the prices of Apple products) are already at a point where they can afford plugins more easily than Windows users.

Windows is the universally common system for most people. And since it is user-friendly, supports all modern apps and is very common as I've said, people in areas and countries which are not so well off use it too. For them plugins are expensive and that's where it begins.

Protecting IP is definitely essential, but we have to agree that in some cases it is just pointless, because people using such products are not in the vicinity of target users anyway. People who have the possibility to afford software though and use the unofficial copies are just AH's.

At the end of the day, I do have to say that for legit users on Mac, iLok is frankly better in some ways. Due to iLok being "a tougher nut" to deal with, most iLok-dependent publishers can afford massive sales since they're not losing anything on piracy.

Anyway, maybe I'm completely wrong, but as long as this demographic difference exists between macOS and Windows, solutions like iLok will always exist too and will always tighten things more for the more commonly used platform.

Just to clarify, I use iLok on Mac and I'm satisfied with it.

[ghettosynth]

I think I figured out the two aisles of this debate.

When I see people who say that they love iLok, most of the time it's macOS users. When I see people who say they hate iLok, most of the time it's Windows users.

There is the answer, I believe. iLok on Mac and Windows is quite different, and for a very simple reason. It's not just about the way different OSes operate, more so about the fact that most efforts to remove protection happen on Windows.

You haven't figured out shit. I use iLok on both Windows and Mac. iLok is fine IF YOU STICK A f**king CROWBAR IN YOUR WALLET AND BUY A GODDAMNED DONGLE.

[BBFG#]

I think I figured out the two aisles of this debate.

When I see people who say that they love iLok, most of the time it's macOS users. When I see people who say they hate iLok, most of the time it's Windows users.

There is the answer, I believe. iLok on Mac and Windows is quite different, and for a very simple reason. It's not just about the way different OSes operate, more so about the fact that most efforts to remove protection happen on Windows.

Remember when Universal Audio came out with Spark and the Windows versions took noticeably longer to come out? This was because they were trying to find every single way to tighten the security with iLok. With the price drops on their plugins, they are heavily relying on the fact that they are the only way people can access their plugins. It does make sense, but it's to the point where you can't transfer licenses. It's them saying "we know you wanted UA stuff natively for a long time, it's out now and cheaper than others - you can only get it by buying it from us" and it makes sense, this has seemed to work very well.

Piracy would massively undermine this strategy, so they decided to go with iLok Cloud/dongle only. Both of these obviously are not possibly to reverse engineer or anything of that kind - the licenses are stored either on PACE's servers or on the dongle, not the user's computer.

Anyway, with that in mind, let's remember the tpkd.sys file which was iLok's windows driver implementation some years ago. Where did they place it? System32...

Now, I don't have to explain why that's obviously bad, but it is straight up interfering with fundamental OS resources. The only other audio company which interfered with system resources was Tone2 - it was a massive controversy. PACE ended up removing the tpdk.sys file, but still it shows just how far they were willing to go to avoid windows piracy.

And it does make perfect sense. You don't even need to work on anti-piracy measures on Mac as hard simply because most macOS users are (based on the prices of Apple products) are already at a point where they can afford plugins more easily than Windows users.

Windows is the universally common system for most people. And since it is user-friendly, supports all modern apps and is very common as I've said, people in areas and countries which are not so well off use it too. For them plugins are expensive and that's where it begins.

If you've ever seen release groups, all of those things - where do they come from? There is your answer.

Protecting IP is definitely essential, but we have to agree that in some cases it is just pointless, because people using such products are not in the vicinity of target users anyway. People who have the possibility to afford software though and use the unofficial copies are just AH's.

At the end of the day, I do have to say that for legit users on Mac, iLok is frankly better in some ways. Due to iLok being "a tougher nut" to deal with, most iLok-dependent publishers can afford massive sales since they're not losing anything on piracy.

Anyway, maybe I'm completely wrong, but as long as this demographic difference exists between macOS and Windows, solutions like iLok will always exist too and will always tighten things more for the more commonly used platform.

Maybe not completely, but yeah, you're probably wrong.
I still don't believe there are anywhere near the amount of "pirates" that companies like this tell everyone there are. And I can see where it's quite plausible to think that a percentage of those actually work for the company. Create a problem that helps sell the solution. Ever notice that companies that insist on having them often have to drop their prices and even give some of their line away just to get customers to submit to it?

[wayford]

You haven't figured out shit. I use iLok on both Windows and Mac. iLok is fine IF YOU STICK A f**king CROWBAR IN YOUR WALLET AND BUY A GODDAMNED DONGLE.

Please relax a bit. I am talking about iLok's architecture on both systems. A dongle is just a tool to store licenses, nothing wrong with it, I never said that.

Having said that, I work on a laptop with two USB-C ports sometimes. So I need a usb hub and then the dongle, not perfect solution. Besides, they're not sold where I am.

Machine authorisation is perfectly fine.

[wayford]

I still don't believe there are anywhere near the amount of "pirates" that companies like this tell everyone there are. And I can see where it's quite plausible to think that a percentage of those actually work for the company. Create a problem that helps sell the solution. Ever notice that companies that insist on having them often have to drop their prices and even give some of their line away just to get customers to submit to it?

Well, technically iLok is one of the reasons UA and others could go so low with prices, right? Some people are unhappy with Cloud/dongle, but they still buy it, because there's no other way to get UA plugins (even with perfectly great alternatives). Their choice of course, everyone's free to choose what they want. If they want UAD, they have to go the provided way.

I'm not trying to argue for or against it, I just think that there are misconceptions about the functions of iLok on different platforms.

[ghettosynth]

You haven't figured out shit. I use iLok on both Windows and Mac. iLok is fine IF YOU STICK A f**king CROWBAR IN YOUR WALLET AND BUY A GODDAMNED DONGLE.

Please relax a bit. I am talking about iLok's architecture on both systems. A dongle is just a tool to store licenses, nothing wrong with it, I never said that.

Having said that, I work on a laptop with two USB-C ports sometimes. So I need a usb hub and then the dongle, not perfect solution. Besides, they're not sold where I am.

Machine authorisation is perfectly fine.

No, it's not. It's where the vast majority of the complaints (and whining) come from. It was created so that licenses could be sold to the ultra-poors. Oh wah, your laptop doesn't support what you need, nobody should care. Ilok is fine, buy a dongle and a real computer or enjoy a nice steaming cup of STFU.

God I don't GAF about the endless whining about iLok. Beyond serials, it is the most reliable way to secure a license on a local hardware mechanism that is not explicitly tied to computer hardware. If you disagree, name something better. I have never had an iLok dongle fail and the dongles cost less than lunch.

[wayford]

No, it's not. It's where the vast majority of the complaints (and whining) come from. It was created so that licenses could be sold to the ultra-poors. Oh wah, your laptop doesn't support what you need, nobody should care. Ilok is fine, buy a dongle and a real computer or enjoy a nice steaming cup of STFU.

God I don't GAF about the endless whining about iLok. Beyond serials, it is the most reliable way to secure a license on a local hardware mechanism that is not explicitly tied to computer hardware. If you disagree, name something better. I have never had an iLok dongle fail and the dongles cost less than lunch.

I don't understand why you're saying thing in such a way. I am making the case for why iLok exists, I wasn't whining. Majority of complaints don't come from only machine authorisation, usually it's Cloud (look through threads on Reddit, etc.).

I also didn't say I disagreed though??? iLok dongle is great for taking your licenses and, say, bringing them from home to studio. I think that's the number one arguement for it.


Also, my laptop does support it, it's also one of the most common laptops on the market (Macbook Air M1). If I, say, have a several thousand dollar Mac Studio and a lightweight Macbook, am I not valid in saying I don't want to have to use a usb hub? Machine authorisation is perfect for such cases.

It was created so that licenses could be sold to the ultra-poors.

Ultra-poors?!

I am sorry for even bringing anything up, I'll just retreat from the conversation. This kind of rhetoric is...no comment.