Super 8 - New polysynth by Native Instruments

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Hallo Spaceboy wrote: Fri Apr 12, 2024 7:43 am
zvenx wrote: Fri Apr 12, 2024 7:24 am Kontakt is still very much there :).

My guess it is always revenue driven...if it is not making enough money it gets dumped.
rsp
But is it the case that “Kontakt is still very much here” (i.e., relevant)? It seems like NI is doing the absolute minimum to support Kontakt while continuing to rake in money on what are essentially glorified sample libraries
NI is about to get a very rude awakening from the likes of Yamaha/Steinberg when it comes to Kontact

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Vortifex wrote: Fri Apr 12, 2024 7:33 am Super 8 was a cool synth, unfixed bugs aside. I feel like it was a victim of a failure of marketing by NI.
Yeah, for me Super 8 was one of the few bright spots in a sea of lackluster (and downright weird) synths and content packs from Native Instruments. Sure, Super 8 isn't particularly innovative. The world probably doesn't need another analog modeling synth unless it's extremely easy-to-use yet deceptively powerful, sounds good, and is nicely designed. I felt that Super 8 had all those things in spades. I don't need another overly-complicated, over-engineered synth (just my opinion) like Massive X.

That's why I'm surprised that Super 8 didn't do better, or at least well enough to justify development of a dedicated plugin version. I guess a lot of people just want emulations of classic hardware synths. But that's specifically why I appreciated Super 8 so much. It's its own thing and isn't trying to emulate any specific synth.

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chk071 wrote: Fri Apr 12, 2024 8:18 am
elxsound wrote: Fri Apr 12, 2024 8:11 am Does make you worry
Isn't that a permanent state of mind for many these days?
LOL. But as the saying goes, even the paranoid have enemies. :scared:

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Hallo Spaceboy wrote: Fri Apr 12, 2024 9:36 am Yeah, for me Super 8 was one of the few bright spots in a sea of lackluster (and downright weird) synths and content packs from Native Instruments. Sure, Super 8 isn't particularly innovative. The world probably doesn't need another analog modeling synth unless it's extremely easy-to-use yet deceptively powerful, sounds good, and is nicely designed. I felt that Super 8 had all those things in spades. I don't need another overly-complicated, over-engineered synth (just my opinion) like Massive X.

That's why I'm surprised that Super 8 didn't do better, or at least well enough to justify development of a dedicated plugin version. I guess a lot of people just want emulations of classic hardware synths. But that's specifically why I appreciated Super 8 so much. It's its own thing and isn't trying to emulate any specific synth.
Beginning life as a Reaktor synth probably didn't help. I assume Monark was successful because it appeared at a time when there weren't really any other decent Moog emulations around, whereas Super 8 was yet another subtractive analog synth in a market full of them. Maybe if it had been a VST from the start and been marketed better it might have been more popular.

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VitaminD wrote: Fri Apr 12, 2024 8:25 am
chk071 wrote: Fri Apr 12, 2024 8:07 am
VitaminD wrote: Fri Apr 12, 2024 7:10 am Native Instruments have become the Google of the music software world. They create tools, once they become adopted, they discontinue them. Wash, Rinse, Repeat.
Super 8 isn't discontinued. The VST3 version is discontinued, the Reaktor version isn't.
That doesn't help anyone who appreciated the VST3 version. That's my point. They build up these new tools, release them to the public, then sometime after suddenly discontinue.

The only things that are really valued at NI are the staples of Kontakt and Reaktor. Everything else could be blown away at any point in the future. I don't like that method of operating.
I'm not sure Reaktor falls into that category anymore. It clearly hasn't been abandoned (yet), but when was the last time they released a Reaktor instrument? I think it was either Super 8 or the front panel patch blocks depending on how you count. And unlike Kontakt they aren't making bank on third-party Reaktor stuff either.
Softsynth addict and electronic music enthusiast.
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Vortifex wrote: Fri Apr 12, 2024 9:45 am Beginning life as a Reaktor synth probably didn't help. I assume Monark was successful because it appeared at a time when there weren't really any other decent Moog emulations around, whereas Super 8 was yet another subtractive analog synth in a market full of them. Maybe if it had been a VST from the start and been marketed better it might have been more popular.
I don't get the whole "Reaktor Instrument" thing. Sure, as a low-cost development platform to test ideas, why not? But IMO, Monark, Spark, etc. should have been dedicated VST/AU/AAX plugins from the get go. Is it really THAT expensive to develop a plugin "wrapper" to place around these Reaktor ensembles?

Of course, one could argue that Reaktor Player just is that wrapper. But if so, then please include a better preset management system within Reaktor that includes tagging, filtering by tags, favorites, etc. That's why I don't like using Reaktor ensembles. It's clunkier to organize and audition presets than it is within full-featured VST/AU/AAX plugins such as those from the likes of Arturia, u-he, et al.

Or does Reaktor include robust preset management features that I'm just not aware of? If so, that would overcome my main objection to using these ensembles.

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Hallo Spaceboy wrote: Fri Apr 12, 2024 12:53 pm Or does Reaktor include robust preset management features that I'm just not aware of? If so, that would overcome my main objection to using these ensembles.
I think the idea is to use Komplete Kontrol if you need previews and better preset management than stock Reaktor. Or, if your DAW allows it, save your presets as VST3 presets and tag from there.

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Hallo Spaceboy wrote: Fri Apr 12, 2024 12:53 pm
I don't get the whole "Reaktor Instrument" thing.

IMO, Monark, Spark, etc. should have been dedicated VST/AU/AAX plugins from the get go. Is it really THAT expensive to develop a plugin "wrapper" to place around these Reaktor ensembles?
:tu:

I really like Super 8.....

It's very simple,but it's got character and it always seems to sit well in the mix :wink:
No auto tune...

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Hallo Spaceboy wrote: Fri Apr 12, 2024 12:53 pmOf course, one could argue that Reaktor Player just is that wrapper. But if so, then please include a better preset management system within Reaktor that includes tagging, filtering by tags, favorites, etc.
Yeeeeeeeesssss

Mind-buggering to me that this still isn't a thing. And they've said feature development has finished now for Reaktor, from here on it's just in maintenance mode. So that's that I guess.
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Hallo Spaceboy wrote: Fri Apr 12, 2024 12:53 pm
Vortifex wrote: Fri Apr 12, 2024 9:45 am Beginning life as a Reaktor synth probably didn't help. I assume Monark was successful because it appeared at a time when there weren't really any other decent Moog emulations around, whereas Super 8 was yet another subtractive analog synth in a market full of them. Maybe if it had been a VST from the start and been marketed better it might have been more popular.
I don't get the whole "Reaktor Instrument" thing. Sure, as a low-cost development platform to test ideas, why not? But IMO, Monark, Spark, etc. should have been dedicated VST/AU/AAX plugins from the get go. Is it really THAT expensive to develop a plugin "wrapper" to place around these Reaktor ensembles?

Of course, one could argue that Reaktor Player just is that wrapper. But if so, then please include a better preset management system within Reaktor that includes tagging, filtering by tags, favorites, etc. That's why I don't like using Reaktor ensembles. It's clunkier to organize and audition presets than it is within full-featured VST/AU/AAX plugins such as those from the likes of Arturia, u-he, et al.

Or does Reaktor include robust preset management features that I'm just not aware of? If so, that would overcome my main objection to using these ensembles.
I agree 100% with Hallo Spaceboy and Vortifex.

We all probably have at least a dozen Reaktor-based synths (and at least a dozen more effects) that we don't think about using because they don't appear as plug-ins in the DAW, and they don't even show up the way Kontakt libraries do once you load Kontakt.

In fact, I don't even really have anything to add to this discussion. (Not that hasn't already been covered in the last 65 pages, anyway.) I'm just throwing these words in here so that when I get an email that someone has responded to this thread, I'll remember I have Super 8 and will think about using it in whatever project I'm currently working on. So...my apologies to anyone who's read this far in my KVR reminder. :wink:

Steve
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IvyBirds wrote: Fri Apr 12, 2024 9:18 am NI is about to get a very rude awakening from the likes of Yamaha/Steinberg when it comes to Kontact
Not really. While Halion is a great product in its own right, with its own pros and cons, it does not compete directly, and Steinberg doesn't seem interested in a head on competition either (neither are UVI).

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chk071 wrote: Fri Apr 12, 2024 8:07 am
VitaminD wrote: Fri Apr 12, 2024 7:10 am Native Instruments have become the Google of the music software world. They create tools, once they become adopted, they discontinue them. Wash, Rinse, Repeat.
Super 8 isn't discontinued. The VST3 version is discontinued, the Reaktor version isn't.
Reaktor 6.5 is also discontinued - in order to utilize its development resources in the best interest of its wider userbase.

Not sure if it’s only super 8 or also Reaktor

https://thesoundboard.net/viewtopic.php?t=5530

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digitalboytn wrote: Fri Apr 12, 2024 1:22 pm
Hallo Spaceboy wrote: Fri Apr 12, 2024 12:53 pm
I don't get the whole "Reaktor Instrument" thing.

IMO, Monark, Spark, etc. should have been dedicated VST/AU/AAX plugins from the get go. Is it really THAT expensive to develop a plugin "wrapper" to place around these Reaktor ensembles?
:tu:

I really like Super 8.....

It's very simple,but it's got character and it always seems to sit well in the mix :wink:
Doesn't resize, and PolyMax sounded better to me. I sold off/gave away my Super 8s.

Super 8 could've been a contender....

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EvilDragon wrote: Sat Apr 13, 2024 4:17 am
IvyBirds wrote: Fri Apr 12, 2024 9:18 am NI is about to get a very rude awakening from the likes of Yamaha/Steinberg when it comes to Kontact
Not really. While Halion is a great product in its own right, with its own pros and cons, it does not compete directly, and Steinberg doesn't seem interested in a head on competition either (neither are UVI).
Other than perhaps scripting capabilities (a subject on which I am admittedly not well-versed,) in what ways do HALion and Falcon not compete directly with Kontakt (and pretty much eat its lunch these days)? Both HALion and Falcon are clearly superior synthesis and arguably better sampling platforms. Of course, if musicians limit their use to sample libraries developed by Native Instruments and various third parties and don't have any interest in creating their own inventive hybrid synthesis/sampling instruments, then Kontakt is probably still the best choice.

But from my perspective, that's really the only thing that Kontakt still has going for it, i.e., strong sample library support. Its relatively limited filters and FX mostly sound dated and weak to me.

And then there's Kontakt's interface which has always been an acquired taste (at best). It's so engineering-centric as to be almost laughable. Of course, HALion and Falcon are also overly complicated. I would argue that TAL has the right idea with their much simpler (and far more affordable) Sampler. Logic's Sampler (aka EXS24) seems to strike the best balance between power features and ease of use. But then you have to use Logic (and be on a Mac).

The only reason I keep Kontakt around is because I have so many third party sample libraries in Kontakt format (and I own Komplete 14 Ultimate which includes many nice Kontakt-formatted sample libraries). But I've never really liked using Kontakt. Peek under the hood of the limited front panels and it quickly becomes a world of pain. If Logic was still my DAW of choice, I would be using Sampler for my own custom sampled instruments.

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EvilDragon wrote: Sat Apr 13, 2024 4:17 am
IvyBirds wrote: Fri Apr 12, 2024 9:18 am NI is about to get a very rude awakening from the likes of Yamaha/Steinberg when it comes to Kontact
Not really. While Halion is a great product in its own right, with its own pros and cons, it does not compete directly, and Steinberg doesn't seem interested in a head on competition either (neither are UVI).
You are comparing the existing product and version of Halion not the version to come with AWM2

Yamaha/Steinberg has an ace up their sleeve and see the stagnation of NI

When they and 3rd party vendors can make and sell the same feature rich sample libraries for both plugins in HALion and the free HALion player, and for hardware in Montage all of a sudden HALion becomes a pretty enticing thing, well positioned to start going after Kontact

Especially when you can take advantage of modern multi core processors and allocate ram resources things Falcon can only dream about doing

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