VPS Avenger 2.1 [RELEASED - FAQ in OP]

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msvs wrote: Sat Apr 13, 2024 7:54 am update 2.1 is live! Enjoy the new features (new FX, harmonizer etc)
The Harmonizer is great and the Peak Limiter sounds great on the drums! Thank you.

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There's a really simple but effective thing you can do with spire where you simply fast lfo modulate the ctrl B parameter which turns a square into a saw and you get a big detuned sound. But I'm struggling to achieve the same thing in Avenger I just get a whole bunch of weird shapes with the formant and x-side params. How do I achieve this?

soound example: https://file.io/lpf1ZBwPxKIZ
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If you don't eat yer meat, you can't have any pudding. HOW CAN YOU HAVE ANY PUDDING IF YOU DON'T EAT YER MEAT!?

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kenny saunders wrote: Sat Apr 13, 2024 2:54 pm There's a really simple but effective thing you can do with spire where you simply fast lfo modulate the ctrl B parameter which turns a square into a saw and you get a big detuned sound. But I'm struggling to achieve the same thing in Avenger I just get a whole bunch of weird shapes with the formant and x-side params. How do I achieve this?

soound example: https://file.io/lpf1ZBwPxKIZ
Well I couldn't download your sound but I think I see what you mean.

I guess you are talking about the Ctrl A, not B. Ctrl A transform the saw into a square, and Ctrl B is PWM, it control the phase of the oscillation and thus allows to do PWM in a richer way.

Anyway, modulating both Ctrl A and B is fun and at high rate it does produce a thick nice sound.

And as for your question, does Avenger allows these kind of stuffs ???? ==> Of course it does !!!!
And in a wealth of possibilities.

First for Ctrl B, you have the X-side parameter, that is actually doing PWM.

Then for Ctrl A, you have many modifiers that are very interesting to play with (in particular their implementation of RM, FM and AM that is absolutely top notch in my view, but also formant, etc...).
For example the Lo-fi modifier will allow you o go from a saw to a square just by reducing the bit depth, very funny (but will sound very different from what you mentioned).

Now, if you want exactly like Ctrl A in Spire, a morphing between the 2 waves, I would go for a wavetable doing that. The modes of wavetable of Avenger are very good with a wealth of parameters to avoid any aliasing. So you could get exactly the same result than Spire.

But I wouldn't recommend to go this way as both synths are awesome and have there own characters... Spire does morphing when Avenger does wavetable, one can emulate the other but why bother if you have both ??? (and I really recommend to have both, if you love one, you'll love the other).

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Jac459 wrote: Sat Apr 13, 2024 10:56 pm
kenny saunders wrote: Sat Apr 13, 2024 2:54 pm There's a really simple but effective thing you can do with spire where you simply fast lfo modulate the ctrl B parameter which turns a square into a saw and you get a big detuned sound. But I'm struggling to achieve the same thing in Avenger I just get a whole bunch of weird shapes with the formant and x-side params. How do I achieve this?

soound example: https://file.io/lpf1ZBwPxKIZ
Well I couldn't download your sound but I think I see what you mean.

I guess you are talking about the Ctrl A, not B. Ctrl A transform the saw into a square, and Ctrl B is PWM, it control the phase of the oscillation and thus allows to do PWM in a richer way.

Anyway, modulating both Ctrl A and B is fun and at high rate it does produce a thick nice sound.

And as for your question, does Avenger allows these kind of stuffs ???? ==> Of course it does !!!!
And in a wealth of possibilities.

First for Ctrl B, you have the X-side parameter, that is actually doing PWM.

Then for Ctrl A, you have many modifiers that are very interesting to play with (in particular their implementation of RM, FM and AM that is absolutely top notch in my view, but also formant, etc...).
For example the Lo-fi modifier will allow you o go from a saw to a square just by reducing the bit depth, very funny (but will sound very different from what you mentioned).

Now, if you want exactly like Ctrl A in Spire, a morphing between the 2 waves, I would go for a wavetable doing that. The modes of wavetable of Avenger are very good with a wealth of parameters to avoid any aliasing. So you could get exactly the same result than Spire.

But I wouldn't recommend to go this way as both synths are awesome and have there own characters... Spire does morphing when Avenger does wavetable, one can emulate the other but why bother if you have both ??? (and I really recommend to have both, if you love one, you'll love the other).
yes I meant ctrl A, here's another upload, i don't know why that one didn't work: http://sndup.net/z786

The effect is strongest when the CTRL A is full square wave then you fast mod it. So is there a saw/square wavetable in avenger?
If you don't eat yer meat, you can't have any pudding. HOW CAN YOU HAVE ANY PUDDING IF YOU DON'T EAT YER MEAT!?

Post

It sounds like something extremely dangerous is about to happen
Click for music links... Eurotrash!
MSI z390, i7 9700k OC, Noctua Cooling, NVMe 970 Pro, 64GB 3200C16, BeQuiet PSU, W11, Cubase 13, Avenger, Spire, Nexus, iZotope, Virus TI (INTERGRATED).

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kenny saunders wrote: Sun Apr 14, 2024 2:29 am
Jac459 wrote: Sat Apr 13, 2024 10:56 pm
kenny saunders wrote: Sat Apr 13, 2024 2:54 pm There's a really simple but effective thing you can do with spire where you simply fast lfo modulate the ctrl B parameter which turns a square into a saw and you get a big detuned sound. But I'm struggling to achieve the same thing in Avenger I just get a whole bunch of weird shapes with the formant and x-side params. How do I achieve this?

soound example: https://file.io/lpf1ZBwPxKIZ
Well I couldn't download your sound but I think I see what you mean.

I guess you are talking about the Ctrl A, not B. Ctrl A transform the saw into a square, and Ctrl B is PWM, it control the phase of the oscillation and thus allows to do PWM in a richer way.

Anyway, modulating both Ctrl A and B is fun and at high rate it does produce a thick nice sound.

And as for your question, does Avenger allows these kind of stuffs ???? ==> Of course it does !!!!
And in a wealth of possibilities.

First for Ctrl B, you have the X-side parameter, that is actually doing PWM.

Then for Ctrl A, you have many modifiers that are very interesting to play with (in particular their implementation of RM, FM and AM that is absolutely top notch in my view, but also formant, etc...).
For example the Lo-fi modifier will allow you o go from a saw to a square just by reducing the bit depth, very funny (but will sound very different from what you mentioned).

Now, if you want exactly like Ctrl A in Spire, a morphing between the 2 waves, I would go for a wavetable doing that. The modes of wavetable of Avenger are very good with a wealth of parameters to avoid any aliasing. So you could get exactly the same result than Spire.

But I wouldn't recommend to go this way as both synths are awesome and have there own characters... Spire does morphing when Avenger does wavetable, one can emulate the other but why bother if you have both ??? (and I really recommend to have both, if you love one, you'll love the other).
yes I meant ctrl A, here's another upload, i don't know why that one didn't work: http://sndup.net/z786

The effect is strongest when the CTRL A is full square wave then you fast mod it. So is there a saw/square wavetable in avenger?
Yes exactly the kind of sound I was thinking of.
For the wavetable I am not sure but you can use a free wavetable editor to create it, it is super fast and easy (I use Zebralette 3 but you could use vital, both good and both free).

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Jac459 wrote: Sun Apr 14, 2024 6:22 am
kenny saunders wrote: Sun Apr 14, 2024 2:29 am
Jac459 wrote: Sat Apr 13, 2024 10:56 pm
kenny saunders wrote: Sat Apr 13, 2024 2:54 pm There's a really simple but effective thing you can do with spire where you simply fast lfo modulate the ctrl B parameter which turns a square into a saw and you get a big detuned sound. But I'm struggling to achieve the same thing in Avenger I just get a whole bunch of weird shapes with the formant and x-side params. How do I achieve this?

soound example: https://file.io/lpf1ZBwPxKIZ
Well I couldn't download your sound but I think I see what you mean.

I guess you are talking about the Ctrl A, not B. Ctrl A transform the saw into a square, and Ctrl B is PWM, it control the phase of the oscillation and thus allows to do PWM in a richer way.

Anyway, modulating both Ctrl A and B is fun and at high rate it does produce a thick nice sound.

And as for your question, does Avenger allows these kind of stuffs ???? ==> Of course it does !!!!
And in a wealth of possibilities.

First for Ctrl B, you have the X-side parameter, that is actually doing PWM.

Then for Ctrl A, you have many modifiers that are very interesting to play with (in particular their implementation of RM, FM and AM that is absolutely top notch in my view, but also formant, etc...).
For example the Lo-fi modifier will allow you o go from a saw to a square just by reducing the bit depth, very funny (but will sound very different from what you mentioned).

Now, if you want exactly like Ctrl A in Spire, a morphing between the 2 waves, I would go for a wavetable doing that. The modes of wavetable of Avenger are very good with a wealth of parameters to avoid any aliasing. So you could get exactly the same result than Spire.

But I wouldn't recommend to go this way as both synths are awesome and have there own characters... Spire does morphing when Avenger does wavetable, one can emulate the other but why bother if you have both ??? (and I really recommend to have both, if you love one, you'll love the other).
yes I meant ctrl A, here's another upload, i don't know why that one didn't work: http://sndup.net/z786

The effect is strongest when the CTRL A is full square wave then you fast mod it. So is there a saw/square wavetable in avenger?
Yes exactly the kind of sound I was thinking of.
For the wavetable I am not sure but you can use a free wavetable editor to create it, it is super fast and easy (I use Zebralette 3 but you could use vital, both good and both free).
Thanks. I guess that would be fairly straight forward to make, I've mostly been a preset monkey so far and its just unfortunate that I've just decided to choose a main synth to know in depth and the very first sound I try to make cant be done like other synths.
If you don't eat yer meat, you can't have any pudding. HOW CAN YOU HAVE ANY PUDDING IF YOU DON'T EAT YER MEAT!?

Post

kenny saunders wrote: Sun Apr 14, 2024 8:50 am
Jac459 wrote: Sun Apr 14, 2024 6:22 am
kenny saunders wrote: Sun Apr 14, 2024 2:29 am
Jac459 wrote: Sat Apr 13, 2024 10:56 pm
kenny saunders wrote: Sat Apr 13, 2024 2:54 pm There's a really simple but effective thing you can do with spire where you simply fast lfo modulate the ctrl B parameter which turns a square into a saw and you get a big detuned sound. But I'm struggling to achieve the same thing in Avenger I just get a whole bunch of weird shapes with the formant and x-side params. How do I achieve this?

soound example: https://file.io/lpf1ZBwPxKIZ
Well I couldn't download your sound but I think I see what you mean.

I guess you are talking about the Ctrl A, not B. Ctrl A transform the saw into a square, and Ctrl B is PWM, it control the phase of the oscillation and thus allows to do PWM in a richer way.

Anyway, modulating both Ctrl A and B is fun and at high rate it does produce a thick nice sound.

And as for your question, does Avenger allows these kind of stuffs ???? ==> Of course it does !!!!
And in a wealth of possibilities.

First for Ctrl B, you have the X-side parameter, that is actually doing PWM.

Then for Ctrl A, you have many modifiers that are very interesting to play with (in particular their implementation of RM, FM and AM that is absolutely top notch in my view, but also formant, etc...).
For example the Lo-fi modifier will allow you o go from a saw to a square just by reducing the bit depth, very funny (but will sound very different from what you mentioned).

Now, if you want exactly like Ctrl A in Spire, a morphing between the 2 waves, I would go for a wavetable doing that. The modes of wavetable of Avenger are very good with a wealth of parameters to avoid any aliasing. So you could get exactly the same result than Spire.

But I wouldn't recommend to go this way as both synths are awesome and have there own characters... Spire does morphing when Avenger does wavetable, one can emulate the other but why bother if you have both ??? (and I really recommend to have both, if you love one, you'll love the other).
yes I meant ctrl A, here's another upload, i don't know why that one didn't work: http://sndup.net/z786

The effect is strongest when the CTRL A is full square wave then you fast mod it. So is there a saw/square wavetable in avenger?
Yes exactly the kind of sound I was thinking of.
For the wavetable I am not sure but you can use a free wavetable editor to create it, it is super fast and easy (I use Zebralette 3 but you could use vital, both good and both free).
Thanks. I guess that would be fairly straight forward to make, I've mostly been a preset monkey so far and its just unfortunate that I've just decided to choose a main synth to know in depth and the very first sound I try to make cant be done like other synths.
Multiple comments on that.

First, Spire is the Apex predator for preset monkeys. Period. In my book, it is ahead of Dune 3, Diva, Serum, phase plant, pigments, syntmaster, and others.
Close second is avenger 2 (sounds as good if not better but expansions way more expensive than spire) and one mention for UVI wich produce magnificent soundwares compatible with Falcon 3.
As a result you WON'T be blown by any new synth, you already got the best.

2nd, what you are trying to do, wave morphing is not that trendy and common. It has been replaced as a trend by wavetables that gives more flexibility (and Zebra 3 will destroy everybody with their splice concept). BUT avenger can get you a lot of similar or better sounds than the one you shared. You can LFO so many aspects, you are guaranteed to get a lot of fun sounds. Clearly. As a sound engine I don't think anything sounds better as easily as Avenger 2. Spire is not far but this time it is the one behind I think.

3rd if what you actually want is to learn synthesis and be a better sound designer, Phase Plant is the beast here. It is super intuitive and you can play intuitively with so many things, you will get crazy sounds.

Finally, if you want ONE synth, to learn, easy to master and yet with virtually no limits, Avenger 2 is absolutely the best.
- it has a range of tutorials on the VPS channel that are extremely well made.
- everything is in one screen, simple and direct.
- the features are absolutely incredible and you got a semi modular architecture meaning that you will be able to play with the signal path (and you WILL want to do that when you start to master a synth).

Spire in my view lacks a bit in features to be your go to synth, while it is unmatched for some sound, there is no sampler, no granular synthesis, no spectral, fixed architecture, you will be very quickly limited.

My conclusion is that all the synths we are talking about are awesome. It is like comparing Porsche, Ferrari or Lamborghini, many people will tell you one is better but the truth is you can't really go wrong...

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By the way there is one synth, a bit mythical in the Reason Rack extension realm that is doing what you say.
Basically each oscillator can morph into 9 different wave shapes in a totally controllable way.
Quite fun.

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I finally got Avenger 2 and I have to say it's a fanastic instrument. It's also very unfortunate that most of the demos on YT are focusing on EDM/Hardstyle type of sound where this synth is way more capable than that

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not really :)
check Atmospherica, Cinematic1-3, Cinematic Loops, Doomstep, Dystopia, Chillout Lounge, Melancholia, Generative I, or the other vintage XPs, like Italo Disco, Synthwave, String Machines or even Chiptune Stuff, Deep House, Tech House, Acid Breaks, Cinematic Grand, Guitars 1-4 or all the other non-EDM/Hardstyle I forgot :) So yes, I agree, Avenger - and synths in general - can do any genre :)

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msvs wrote: Mon Apr 15, 2024 4:18 am not really :)
check Atmospherica, Cinematic1-3, Cinematic Loops, Doomstep, Dystopia, Chillout Lounge, Melancholia, Generative I, or the other vintage XPs, like Italo Disco, Synthwave, String Machines or even Chiptune Stuff, Deep House, Tech House, Acid Breaks, Cinematic Grand, Guitars 1-4 or all the other non-EDM/Hardstyle I forgot :) So yes, I agree, Avenger - and synths in general - can do any genre :)
Those are way better - thanks :)

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msvs wrote: Mon Apr 15, 2024 4:18 am not really :)
check Atmospherica, Cinematic1-3, Cinematic Loops, Doomstep, Dystopia, Chillout Lounge, Melancholia, Generative I, or the other vintage XPs, like Italo Disco, Synthwave, String Machines or even Chiptune Stuff, Deep House, Tech House, Acid Breaks, Cinematic Grand, Guitars 1-4 or all the other non-EDM/Hardstyle I forgot :) So yes, I agree, Avenger - and synths in general - can do any genre :)
Hi - Can you let us know what genre the next few expansions will be and a rough timeline for release. :tu: :)

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currently I am working on Atmospherica 2 and Dystopia 2... as well as a Party EDM (Mallorca) xp

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msvs wrote: Mon Apr 15, 2024 5:27 am currently I am working on Atmospherica 2 and Dystopia 2... as well as a Party EDM (Mallorca) xp
Wow - Atmospherica 2 and Dystopia 2 - I'M IN :hyper: :hyper: :clap: :clap:

Thanks a lot for the cinematic / atmospheric expansions!!!

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