Steinberg Cubase vs logic

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Trensharo wrote: Mon Apr 15, 2024 10:18 am
mothra wrote: Mon Apr 08, 2024 7:07 pm Damn I always forget about that little detail, Logic's got it beat by miles if you need samplers out of the box. Sampler (aka EXS24 3.0), Quick Sampler, Alchemy.. I had to pay extra for Halion for Cubase, but that said, I don't miss the samplers from Logic and I rarely use my EMU now because of it.

Logic's are great and probably all you will need. My one gripe with it, if you spend a lot of time building a big sample library, it stays inside Logic. Halion, Kontakt, TAL Sampler, etc, being a VST/AU instrument, you can move those around to other DAW's and whatnot. One day you might not want to use a Mac anymore, or need to ditch Logic for whatever reason. On top of having to learn (and buy) a new DAW, you'll end up starting all over if your library is stuck in the Logic/Apple ecosystem.

With Cubase, all of the instruments you get, Retrologue, Halion Sonic, Groove Agent SE, etc.. Those are all just regular old VST/AU plugins. They're tied to your Cubase license but you can use those in other DAW's, Mac or PC, etc..
Sampler Track is good. Comparable to Quick Sampler, IMO, and definitely a better workflow. Groove Agent SE 5 is all most people will need for Drum Sampling.

Cubase doesn't have anything like Sampler, though, because HALion is a separate product line.

Logic has better synth coverage than Cubase, but a lot of its synths are beyond old. I don't think it has a VA synth as good as Retrologue 2. Padshop 2 can compete with pretty much anything on the market.

Where Logic, though, wins is in coverage. It has FM, Physical Modelling and Drum Synths that Cubase doesn't have. Alchemy is good, but we all know most people use it like how people use Omnisphere... basically as a ROMpler for presets. Lol.

I do think it has better Library Content. You need Absolute to surpass what Logic includes in the box. Cubase is better in some areas, but the quality is not consistent. With Logic, the Quality is far more consistent.
I produce three genre's of music in afrobeatz, pop, and rnb. The more modernized sounds for Padshop Pro, Retrologue, Groove Agent, and Halion are in the expansions/preset packs. They have been releasing them consistently. Can't forget the additional instrument available for purchase like Backbone. Halion's libraries are really underrated. Logic can't compete with Cubase in terms of midi especially with multipart editing, ghost notes (like Fl studio), live record input mode-notes snap to scale in real time, scale suggestion, ability to have the midi notes to follow the chords scale/root notes etc, chord pads, chord track with chord asssitant, midi insert effects like apache/chorder, being able to separate a midi part to different tracks, and more. Imagine having a keyboard shortcut to where you have all your tracks routed to a drum bus with a custom color.

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You can add HALion to Cubase Pro 13 and you still would not close the synth gap with Logic Pro, because HALion does not do Physical Modelling or Drum Synthesis (Falcon does, however), etc. Logic Pro ships with good samplers that actually sample. Cubase does not.

The only other DAWs that offer a comparable stock of synths OOTB are Ableton Live Suite, Reason 12 and FL Studio (Signature+).

HALion's sound content is not underrated. Much of the Factory Content is lower-to-middle-road and most people only remark on the discrete instrument libraries that it bundles (Raven, Eagle, etc.).

That's kind of the big issue with HALion.

It's a $349 Instrument that bundles library content that isn't on par with Komplete Standard while also not being quite as flexible of a synth as Falcon (which sales at the same price). It's stuck in the middle. Most people who want the synthesis go with Falcon (which can host UVI's massive catalog of soundware), and the people who want the library content generally go with Komplete - because it's a far better package overall, while also delivering great synths.

A lot of Steinberg content is also geared at the Scoring/Cinematic or EDM markets, as well... assuming it isn't another Piano or Keyboard instrument. There isn't a lot of depth there.

I think they could release more stuff, personally. They do release stuff, but not as much as I think they could (or should).

A lot of the features you mentioned are things I can do with the FW in my MIDI Controller, and generally would do there anyways, including snapping to scale on input.

I do think Cubase is stronger in Theory features, but you can bolt a lot of that onto Logic with stuff like Scaler 2 - which run as a MIDI FX in Logic Pro. You cannot bolt Logic's astronomically better step sequencer or Live Loops onto Cubase Pro - nor its hilariously low (up front and running) price point.

Personally, I think 85% of people's decisions are made before they even see a feature matrix. They look at the stick price and upgrade policies and decide then and there.

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Trensharo wrote: Wed Apr 17, 2024 3:32 pm You can add HALion to Cubase Pro 13 and you still would not close the synth gap with Logic Pro, because HALion does not do Physical Modelling or Drum Synthesis (Falcon does, however), etc. Logic Pro ships with good samplers that actually sample. Cubase does not.

The only other DAWs that offer a comparable stock of synths OOTB are Ableton Live Suite, Reason 12 and FL Studio (Signature+).

HALion's sound content is not underrated. Much of the Factory Content is lower-to-middle-road and most people only remark on the discrete instrument libraries that it bundles (Raven, Eagle, etc.).

That's kind of the big issue with HALion.

It's a $349 Instrument that bundles library content that isn't on par with Komplete Standard while also not being quite as flexible of a synth as Falcon (which sales at the same price). It's stuck in the middle. Most people who want the synthesis go with Falcon (which can host UVI's massive catalog of soundware), and the people who want the library content generally go with Komplete - because it's a far better package overall, while also delivering great synths.

A lot of Steinberg content is also geared at the Scoring/Cinematic or EDM markets, as well... assuming it isn't another Piano or Keyboard instrument. There isn't a lot of depth there.

I think they could release more stuff, personally. They do release stuff, but not as much as I think they could (or should).

A lot of the features you mentioned are things I can do with the FW in my MIDI Controller, and generally would do there anyways, including snapping to scale on input.

I do think Cubase is stronger in Theory features, but you can bolt a lot of that onto Logic with stuff like Scaler 2 - which run as a MIDI FX in Logic Pro. You cannot bolt Logic's astronomically better step sequencer or Live Loops onto Cubase Pro - nor its hilariously low (up front and running) price point.

Personally, I think 85% of people's decisions are made before they even see a feature matrix. They look at the stick price and upgrade policies and decide then and there.
Our opinions are different because we do different things. You don't sound like a music producer. I have all of scaler presets in Cubase via the chord pads! Plus the chords from all kinds of songs. Can't forget get about the mix snapshopts. I don't know if logic has that. Or when mixing I can hide certain tracks (like the chorus section of a song I'm mixing), and via a keyboard shortcut can show only the tracks playing in those sections.

Your just keep mentioning the stock, but Steinberg keep releasing some great libraries and some that are free Iconic Sketch (comes with Cubase) , Acoustic Samples Guitar Library, Cinematique instruments colors series, Taped Vibes, new studio grand, and I can go on.

They are trying to give you more that just presets. You have to put the time in to learn Halion. With padshop pro I can have sampled sounds, and edit them via the sampler track. From here I can just send it to Groove Agent or Padshop pro. I can throw my sample in padshop pro, and come up with something with the Flexphraser. Also, padshop pro has different samples like from wavetables, piano fx that I can mix with the samples I load.

Can't forget the mix effect plugins like the Black Valve, Pultech emulation. Plus the frequency can sidechain what 8 inputs or something like that. Can't forget the arranger track.

Cubase takes it.

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You don't sound like a music producer.
Ummm... Please explain.
I have all of scaler presets in Cubase via the chord pads! Plus the chords from all kinds of songs.
Cubase is $300 more than Logic Pro and Scaler 2 is a $30-50 plug-in, depending on sales.

I think you've completely missed my point, there.
Your just keep mentioning the stock, but Steinberg keep releasing some great libraries and some that are free Iconic Sketch (comes with Cubase) , Acoustic Samples Guitar Library, Cinematique instruments colors series, Taped Vibes, new studio grand, and I can go on.
So does Logic Pro, and it all costs $0. 90% of the stuff that Steinberg releases for HALion was already available for KONTAKT, and often costs less there.

Logic already includes comparable orchestral libraries to Iconica Sketch, with more articulations, etc. Like I said, Iconica Sketch is nice, but it is not a competitive advantage over Logic.

Wholistically, Logic Pro has FAR better Acoustic Library content than Cubase Pro - even if you download all of their freebies. Apple gives you more and the average quality across the content is much higher.

I've been using HALion since Absolute 4. I am not going to sit here and read about how I need to put in more time to learn how to use it, when I've been actively using it for like 4-5 years.

Steinberg doesn't have the depth of content available for their Synths or Samplers that companies like Arturia, UVI, Native Instruments, etc. have. What they do have, is generally biased to specific genres like EDM and Cinematic/Scoring market segments.

A Hip Hop producer, for example, isn't going to go to Steinberg.net and see a wealth of content targeted at them. They will with [some of] those other companies.

Anybody can acquire or add-on content after purchase, so I'm not sure why anything beyond stock matters when comparing the DAWs. Once you buy them, you can get whatever else you want. The world is not scarce of high quality free soft synths, virtual instruments, sample libraries, synth presets, etc.

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just going to put this picture here, see this is why it's not Logic

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adaptive voicing in pads and chord track plus chord notes highlighting in PR together is a pretty cool song start tool (pluck command clicking on a note can play back the whole chord which is also a plus)
"Where we're workarounding, we don't NEED features." - powermat

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Trensharo wrote: Thu Apr 18, 2024 5:29 pm
You don't sound like a music producer.
Ummm... Please explain.
I have all of scaler presets in Cubase via the chord pads! Plus the chords from all kinds of songs.
Cubase is $300 more than Logic Pro and Scaler 2 is a $30-50 plug-in, depending on sales.

I think you've completely missed my point, there.
Your just keep mentioning the stock, but Steinberg keep releasing some great libraries and some that are free Iconic Sketch (comes with Cubase) , Acoustic Samples Guitar Library, Cinematique instruments colors series, Taped Vibes, new studio grand, and I can go on.
So does Logic Pro, and it all costs $0. 90% of the stuff that Steinberg releases for HALion was already available for KONTAKT, and often costs less there.

Logic already includes comparable orchestral libraries to Iconica Sketch, with more articulations, etc. Like I said, Iconica Sketch is nice, but it is not a competitive advantage over Logic.

Wholistically, Logic Pro has FAR better Acoustic Library content than Cubase Pro - even if you download all of their freebies. Apple gives you more and the average quality across the content is much higher.

I've been using HALion since Absolute 4. I am not going to sit here and read about how I need to put in more time to learn how to use it, when I've been actively using it for like 4-5 years.

Steinberg doesn't have the depth of content available for their Synths or Samplers that companies like Arturia, UVI, Native Instruments, etc. have. What they do have, is generally biased to specific genres like EDM and Cinematic/Scoring market segments.

A Hip Hop producer, for example, isn't going to go to Steinberg.net and see a wealth of content targeted at them. They will with [some of] those other companies.

Anybody can acquire or add-on content after purchase, so I'm not sure why anything beyond stock matters when comparing the DAWs. Once you buy them, you can get whatever else you want. The world is not scarce of high quality free soft synths, virtual instruments, sample libraries, synth presets, etc.
Sounds like you have something personal with Steinberg. Trouble using it? It's plenty of stuff for hip hop producers with Steinberg content with Groove Agent, Halion, Pad Shop Pro, and Retrologue preset packs. Plus great sounds have been added to Cubasis.

Sounds like you haven't mastered using Halion after 4 or 5 years with it.

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and the added MIDI effects can even be frozen
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"Where we're workarounding, we don't NEED features." - powermat

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xbitz wrote: Fri Apr 19, 2024 8:16 am and the added MIDI effects can even be frozen
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While not exactly the same you can record midi effects in Logic. You can even choose up to which midi effect to record if you have multiple effects going.
Studio One // Bitwig // Logic Pro // Ableton // Reason // FLStudio // MPC // Force // Maschine

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^^^
this is not a difference between the 2 DAWs, I didn't mention it.
Screenshot 2024-04-19 at 18.40.58.png
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btw. you can also drop MIDI clips into the Cubase arp plugin, and it can adapt them to chords; I don't think (AFAIK) Logic has anything like this
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cY9JxhXUo2I

8:30 > also a good stuff
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"Where we're workarounding, we don't NEED features." - powermat

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xbitz wrote: Fri Apr 19, 2024 8:46 am ^^^
this is not a difference between the 2 DAWs, I didn't mention it.
Screenshot 2024-04-19 at 18.40.58.png

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btw. you can also drop MIDI clips into the Cubase arp plugin, and it can adapt them to chords; I don't think (AFAIK) Logic has anything like this
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cY9JxhXUo2I

8:30 > also a good stuff
That’s pretty cool. On the flip side Logics arp is a bit easier to use (imo), has a built in sequencer and also has silent capture and an add mode so you can play in what you want the arp to playback.

Not as nice as dragging and dropping in midi but still pretty useful.
Studio One // Bitwig // Logic Pro // Ableton // Reason // FLStudio // MPC // Force // Maschine

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Hey Cubase vs Logic users just chill out please :wink:
Both are excellent in what they do :)

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wuworld wrote: Fri Apr 19, 2024 4:40 am Sounds like you have something personal with Steinberg.
Nope, dude is known to badmouth just about every DAW here ... always making the same kind of outrageously libelious sweeping statements while barely every mentioning any details/actual features...

that simply seems to be his kind of favourite sport - dunno why though since I'm not a shrink. :hihi:
"Preamps have literally one job: when you turn up the gain, it gets louder." Jamcat, talking about presmp-emulation plugins.

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My limited experience: Logic Pro was more CPU efficient than Cubase 10.
“Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that."
-Martin Luther King Jr.

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Everything is calm; I just wanted to point out that Logic is missing a workflow where you can tap chords onto the chord pads from a MIDI keyboard, link these chords together on the chord track (programmatically and adaptively), highlight them on the PR, and then fill them into a pattern with a single button press from a MIDI clip source

Image

for me this is the biggest diff between the two DAWs, the let's start a song from a pretty good editable chord progression is quite well supported under Cubase...if this weren't the case, the two DAWs would be about interchangeable for me
"Where we're workarounding, we don't NEED features." - powermat

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wuworld wrote: Fri Apr 19, 2024 4:40 am
Trensharo wrote: Thu Apr 18, 2024 5:29 pm
You don't sound like a music producer.
Ummm... Please explain.
I have all of scaler presets in Cubase via the chord pads! Plus the chords from all kinds of songs.
Cubase is $300 more than Logic Pro and Scaler 2 is a $30-50 plug-in, depending on sales.

I think you've completely missed my point, there.
Your just keep mentioning the stock, but Steinberg keep releasing some great libraries and some that are free Iconic Sketch (comes with Cubase) , Acoustic Samples Guitar Library, Cinematique instruments colors series, Taped Vibes, new studio grand, and I can go on.
So does Logic Pro, and it all costs $0. 90% of the stuff that Steinberg releases for HALion was already available for KONTAKT, and often costs less there.

Logic already includes comparable orchestral libraries to Iconica Sketch, with more articulations, etc. Like I said, Iconica Sketch is nice, but it is not a competitive advantage over Logic.

Wholistically, Logic Pro has FAR better Acoustic Library content than Cubase Pro - even if you download all of their freebies. Apple gives you more and the average quality across the content is much higher.

I've been using HALion since Absolute 4. I am not going to sit here and read about how I need to put in more time to learn how to use it, when I've been actively using it for like 4-5 years.

Steinberg doesn't have the depth of content available for their Synths or Samplers that companies like Arturia, UVI, Native Instruments, etc. have. What they do have, is generally biased to specific genres like EDM and Cinematic/Scoring market segments.

A Hip Hop producer, for example, isn't going to go to Steinberg.net and see a wealth of content targeted at them. They will with [some of] those other companies.

Anybody can acquire or add-on content after purchase, so I'm not sure why anything beyond stock matters when comparing the DAWs. Once you buy them, you can get whatever else you want. The world is not scarce of high quality free soft synths, virtual instruments, sample libraries, synth presets, etc.
Sounds like you have something personal with Steinberg. Trouble using it? It's plenty of stuff for hip hop producers with Steinberg content with Groove Agent, Halion, Pad Shop Pro, and Retrologue preset packs. Plus great sounds have been added to Cubasis.

Sounds like you haven't mastered using Halion after 4 or 5 years with it.
Dude. I am going to let you have that freebie, because you seem to be incapable of reading and following a thread, and don't know who you're talking to.

Image

Clearly having personal problems with Steinberg, to the point that I've bought most of what they offer and paid for several upgrades over the years. Thousands of dollars, literally.

Why do people always resort to trolling when they run out of cope?

These replies are weird, considering what you initially replied to (an earlier post of mine), where I basically went out of my way to level the differences as much as possible between these two options:
Sampler Track is good. Comparable to Quick Sampler, IMO, and definitely a better workflow. Groove Agent SE 5 is all most people will need for Drum Sampling.

Cubase doesn't have anything like Sampler, though, because HALion is a separate product line.

Logic has better synth coverage than Cubase, but a lot of its synths are beyond old. I don't think it has a VA synth as good as Retrologue 2. Padshop 2 can compete with pretty much anything on the market.

Where Logic, though, wins is in coverage. It has FM, Physical Modelling and Drum Synths that Cubase doesn't have. Alchemy is good, but we all know most people use it like how people use Omnisphere... basically as a ROMpler for presets. Lol.

I do think it has better Library Content. You need Absolute to surpass what Logic includes in the box. Cubase is better in some areas, but the quality is not consistent. With Logic, the Quality is far more consistent.
But for some reason, that's not enough. I have to LIE and tell people that the Content in the Cubase Pro package is comparable to Logic Pro, which isn't even close to the truth. And to say that Steinberg has lots there for the market segment you referenced is... quite the stretch.

Expansion Content:

Groove Agent has (IIRC), 2 Hip Hop Expansions. Padshop may have one, if we're lucky. The vast majority of it is cinematic. Retrologue 2 actually doesn't have much for expansion content, and none of it is designed for that genre, though a couple of the generic expansions may be useful there.

All-in-all, Steinberg doesn't really have that much expansion content available, and they really haven't been releasing much on a regular schedule. I think Padshop has actually gotten more releases than both Groove Agent and Retrologue, but they are heavily tilted towards the Cinematic market.

Massive X has more expansion packs than Retrologue 2 despite the latter being on the market twice as long (if not longer). Steinberg simply does not invest as much in content development, and most of that goes towards specific market segments where their users tend to huddle. Most Cubase users don't have an issue with that. People getting into the market may value those things differently (most will just bolt on third party ecosystems to cover those areas).

As for HALion, the gaps in that ecosystem are as vast as Mirovia.

If I said you are blocked, I won't see your posts. Please kindly refrain from quoting or replying to me.
"Notifications for Nothing" are annoying. Blocking me in return is a good way to avoid this.


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