New Cakewalk Next and Sonar

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D-Fusion wrote: Tue Apr 16, 2024 5:08 am
chk071 wrote: Sun Apr 14, 2024 8:15 am I really wonder what the hold up is with the launch. I somehow don't buy into that "We need all the different departments to be coordinated, and we have done everything on our side to prepare the launch".

You don't launch a website with "Coming soon", and then launch a year later. Well, maybe in the video game industry.
Maybe they got enough Subscribers from Bandlab so they won't bother with sales.
I hope that's not the case, for those that prefer perpetual licensing.

But, you might have a point there. I could imagine that they just wait and see how many actually would subscribe to Bandlab to use Sonar.

I'm getting a bit paranoid, by the way. Since Tone2's tantrums about fake news and what not, I always expect some posts by reps now, who come in here, and "set things right". So, yes, disclaimer: Just guessing and speculating. No need to throw a trantrum. ;)

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chk071 wrote: Tue Apr 16, 2024 5:47 am
D-Fusion wrote: Tue Apr 16, 2024 5:08 am
chk071 wrote: Sun Apr 14, 2024 8:15 am I really wonder what the hold up is with the launch. I somehow don't buy into that "We need all the different departments to be coordinated, and we have done everything on our side to prepare the launch".

You don't launch a website with "Coming soon", and then launch a year later. Well, maybe in the video game industry.
Maybe they got enough Subscribers from Bandlab so they won't bother with sales.
I hope that's not the case, for those that prefer perpetual licensing.

But, you might have a point there. I could imagine that they just wait and see how many actually would subscribe to Bandlab to use Sonar.

I'm getting a bit paranoid, by the way. Since Tone2's tantrums about fake news and what not, I always expect some posts by reps now, who come in here, and "set things right". So, yes, disclaimer: Just guessing and speculating. No need to throw a trantrum. ;)
I hope that is not the case too.
Only time will tell but so far it has been Subscription based after they made their coming soon statement.

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I think being pro or against subscription might be close to 50% either.
- subscription major advantage for vendor
- perpetual major advantage for users

I got PowerDirector 15 on good discounts, perpetual, then upgraded to v16 also good discounts. But since started with subscription they only have discounts on subscription model.
- it's really a rope around you neck that it stops working unless you pay again with subscription
- so I stayed on v16 now for 5 years

But there are enough loosing out not providing perpetual too it seems.

Avid ProTools last campaign here "ProTools now perpetual again" or similar.

I looked at Samplitude ProX8 not long ago, and license is perpetual but you have to go online once a month. Talking to them that my daw computer is normally not online they immediately offered to get a P2-licens which does not need it, those new once beginning P3 need that refresh.
- anybody that is annoyed about that, talk to Magix

Many vendors also emphasize that licenses are perpetual, but also provide subscription for those that want that.

Interesting idea that BandLab might test out subscription and throw in Sonar for those that do.

But not sure which planet Cakewalk live on not even updating "coming soon" to something else. It's so rediculous behavior that caused them major damage already IMO.

Wasn't there announcement on some Behringer Daw of some kind, not that long ago?

I looked at Behringer Wing if it could be used as a daw
- bad sadly not
- you could record directly to SD memory cards, 60 tracks, but aimed for direct record of a band session and stuff.
- but not track to track recording listening to previous stuff

Wing has everything for mixing, effects, 60 tracks and all you need
- but no thought making it standalone portastudio

Tascam have the Model 12, 16, 24 series mixers that do that, so looked at those a bit if to go dawless.
- some reviews meant they were better electronics than DP series portastudios

Those looking for daws, have a look that Tascam Model series. Rather cute.



I read here that some want Cakewalk Next that target as more of song writing tool.
- there are too many distractions in computer to do the song writing part there


I just remember going from hdd portastudio to computer 20 years ago, it took years to be as efficient since so much you can do in a daw.
- focus move from making melodies to thinking about what sounds to use etc
- our brain is most efficient doing one thing at a time

I do all song writing with just an instrument and a dictaphone to track ideas.
- then going into daw work and might decide on things like it needs a bridge and stuff to make it a bit more interesting

Is there a market for Cakewalk Next, really don't know.
- but we know it takes many years to make a decent daw

Was it 5 years before first versions, very stripped down of Bitwig as an example.

Reaper 20 years in the making, and people still riot over things missing.

Tough maket to make daws....

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Sonar is missing a LOT more than REAPER, relative to DAWs like Cubase, Live, Logic and others.

REAPER has always had a steady development pace that focused on feature implementation and bug fixes.

SONAR had a decade where they did bare minimum feature implementation - and half-assed half of what they did implement - while focusing on bundling, plug-ins and sound/expansion packs... None of which is really worth much of anything in the current era, because of how dirt cheap it is to get S-Tier Synths and Virtual Instruments due to the constant rotation of promotional/discount periods.

They paid a high opportunity cost for that. I do think they have done good work since BandLab took the reins, but development has been scattershot which hasn't really allowed the DAW to nail down a particular niche to specialize in... So, it's kind of bordering on mediocre in all market sub-segments.

If I said you are blocked, I won't see your posts. Please kindly refrain from quoting or replying to me.
"Notifications for Nothing" are annoying. Blocking me in return is a good way to avoid this.


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D-Fusion wrote: Tue Apr 16, 2024 5:08 am
chk071 wrote: Sun Apr 14, 2024 8:15 am I really wonder what the hold up is with the launch. I somehow don't buy into that "We need all the different departments to be coordinated, and we have done everything on our side to prepare the launch".

You don't launch a website with "Coming soon", and then launch a year later. Well, maybe in the video game industry.
Maybe they got enough Subscribers from Bandlab so they won't bother with sales.
Probably so. They have too much egg-on-their-face for anyone to take them seriously as a paid-up option.

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They had more value as a free DAW! Now as a paid DAW it's kind of a joke. Especially the way they have been handling their lack of a launch, poor communication, and paid subscription to their beta (to me it's beta until it's officially launched regardless what they call it, same goes for their "subscription service").

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Tuff crowd. Keeping my powder dry for now.

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SuperG wrote: Tue Apr 16, 2024 5:20 pm
D-Fusion wrote: Tue Apr 16, 2024 5:08 am
chk071 wrote: Sun Apr 14, 2024 8:15 am I really wonder what the hold up is with the launch. I somehow don't buy into that "We need all the different departments to be coordinated, and we have done everything on our side to prepare the launch".

You don't launch a website with "Coming soon", and then launch a year later. Well, maybe in the video game industry.
Maybe they got enough Subscribers from Bandlab so they won't bother with sales.
Probably so. They have too much egg-on-their-face for anyone to take them seriously as a paid-up option.
I will be the first to support them if they go back to Sonar X3 offline authorization method.
If it will continue like the Bandlab version is doing it that demands regular re-authorizations and online only i will run the other way and keep on using what i have now since i refuse to pay money for the privilege of being a Digital Hostage.

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D-Fusion wrote: Sun Apr 21, 2024 7:29 am
SuperG wrote: Tue Apr 16, 2024 5:20 pm
D-Fusion wrote: Tue Apr 16, 2024 5:08 am
chk071 wrote: Sun Apr 14, 2024 8:15 am I really wonder what the hold up is with the launch. I somehow don't buy into that "We need all the different departments to be coordinated, and we have done everything on our side to prepare the launch".

You don't launch a website with "Coming soon", and then launch a year later. Well, maybe in the video game industry.
Maybe they got enough Subscribers from Bandlab so they won't bother with sales.
Probably so. They have too much egg-on-their-face for anyone to take them seriously as a paid-up option.
I will be the first to support them if they go back to Sonar X3 offline authorization method.
If it will continue like the Bandlab version is doing it that demands regular re-authorizations and online only i will run the other way and keep on using what i have now since i refuse to pay money for the privilege of being a Digital Hostage.
Agree. I don't mind needing to do a one time internet activation, but the silent reactivations - and you never really know when that is due, or how to force it to happen when you know you will be going where you have no [secure] internet - is problematic to me.

The only company that has designed a reasonable workaround is Reason Studios, where they allow you to add a 1-year offline activation to one machine.

If I said you are blocked, I won't see your posts. Please kindly refrain from quoting or replying to me.
"Notifications for Nothing" are annoying. Blocking me in return is a good way to avoid this.


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D-Fusion wrote: Sun Apr 21, 2024 7:29 am I will be the first to support them if they go back to Sonar X3 offline authorization method.
If it will continue like the Bandlab version is doing it that demands regular re-authorizations and online only i will run the other way and keep on using what i have now since i refuse to pay money for the privilege of being a Digital Hostage.
Exactly how I would go about getting new Sonar.
- simple challenge response like last Gibson era and before

I ran Cakewalk for 6 months and came to reauthorization thingy, that did not work
- no confirmation when next expire date or anything following instructions
- and it kept pushing message I have to reauthorize.
- I did not want in the middle of mixing/recording just that it stopped working
- so uninstalled and removed any trace of it

I ditched Cakewalk and went back to Sonar Artist, 8 years since updated.
- simple challeng response authorizing

Sonar is a premium daw for me, since I do not rely on content in any way. I bought into 3rd party on everything plugins and content is now mostly external gear.

For many people a daw is valued for the content and stock plugins as well, and I understand that fully.
- each for his own needs

Daw core features
#1 - hold recordings on tracks as clips
#2 - allow plugins
#3 - allow automation
#4 - some editing features for audio and midi is good to have
#5 - looks appealing enough to stand looking at it 8-10 hours a day
#6 - stability and performance
#7 - workflow assist me using it

First 4 points all daws I tested fullfil, and they seem similar to me.

Best fit for me is Sonar. And thankfully it works just fine on Windows 11 too.

Some oddities with how Solo works on busses and tracks, but I can live with that, if so.

But Cakewalk/Bandlab is messing this up for many of us that would like to support it's future.
- almost a year since announced we don't know what versions to be there or price tag either
- some dark web club keep the secrets to themselves it seems
- unbelievable how they addressed this
- somebody should have their head examined...

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They have certainly made a mess of things, but it might be just what they want. What they have done does look like they are testing out the Subscription thing, seeing how many they can get to come across.

But they (Noel) has said there will most likely, probably, almost certainly be a perpetual license deal along with the subscription method and all sorts of other fanciful stuff. What I find telling though is that they won't give straight answers to peoples questions, if they give an answer at all, they do a lot of dancing around certain topics, maybe they can't, maybe they don't know themselves.

Someone else is pulling the strings, they're just doing the dancing.
Say NO to CLAP!

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I think they may be trying to finish some other features, because it's going to be a hard sell to move people over if they launch it basically with what that Beta has. Really, there is very little reason to transition from Cakewalk by BandLab to that commercial product.

If I said you are blocked, I won't see your posts. Please kindly refrain from quoting or replying to me.
"Notifications for Nothing" are annoying. Blocking me in return is a good way to avoid this.


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I believe Noel (or someone official) said it was "feature complete" and not "beta" when asked about it on the forums during the time when they made the release you have when you're not having a release.
Say NO to CLAP!

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Yeah, and the response has been lukewarm at best - which really is no surprise at all if one takes a close look at the abysmal number&quality of actual new features in the changelog - so they're back at the drawing-board now most likely - which would be explain the lack of Information from them...
"Preamps have literally one job: when you turn up the gain, it gets louder." Jamcat, talking about presmp-emulation plugins.

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jens wrote: Mon Apr 22, 2024 12:37 am Yeah, and the response has been lukewarm at best - which really is no surprise at all if one takes a close look at the abysmal number&quality of actual new features in the changelog - so they're back at the drawing-board now most likely - which would be explain the lack of Information from them...
I looked through all changelogs, it it was 64 pages or something. They have been busy as far as I can tell.
- was checking out which things I wanted fixed if possibly done

But it was in Gibson and Rolands days and before different opinions what they are to spend time doing.

There were some discussions on doing upsampling and Craig Anderton made it happend talking to devs.

Cakewalk mostly responded that they "follow industry trends" or similar.

Having vector based gui drawing is a biggy, I think, scaling to any size also doing hidpi resolutions.

What stumped me was that they released Cakewalk by Bandlab with a full year of updates being pending, before releasing paid Sonar version.
- so lowering threshold for anybody going from free to paid, the last thing they do
- no survival instincts one could say

And Next must take an awful amount of work on top of Sonar too, for Mac as well.

I there such a vacuum in daw market?

I looked at a pre-release of Next review, and don't get how this is better in any way?
- maybe some content was easier to get hold of beginners, not sure
- but reviewer was not impressed, that is for sure

You can get cheap entertainer Yamaha or Casio keyboard, $100 or so, with loads of sounds. I bet this is more fun for beginners having lots of sounds to explore, and no computer needed to play around a bit.

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