What do you consider to be a musician?

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Kerry King. Everyone else is just an amateur.
I used to be Bunnyboy many many years ago

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how far south? i dont go over the bridge.

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vurt wrote: Sun Apr 14, 2024 11:59 am
VOODOO U wrote: Sun Apr 14, 2024 9:26 am
A musician is a person that can play an instrument.
the kazoo, is a musical instrument.
yazzoo, were an 80s pop acts, but are irrelevant to this discussion.
Yazzoo is way more relevant than this whole thread.
Vince Clarke is more relevant than all of KVR.

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VOODOO U wrote: Sun Apr 14, 2024 3:16 pm
vurt wrote: Sun Apr 14, 2024 11:59 am
VOODOO U wrote: Sun Apr 14, 2024 9:26 am
A musician is a person that can play an instrument.
the kazoo, is a musical instrument.
yazzoo, were an 80s pop acts, but are irrelevant to this discussion.
Yazzoo is way more relevant than this whole thread.
Vince Clarke is more relevant than all of KVR.
"Way more relevant" to what? More relevant to the discussion than the whole thread, which contains the discussion? Are you unwell?

Come on lad, at least try and make sense. Your compatriot stark-bollock bonkers edgelords at least try.

On balance, I think I rather prefer Bones for my dose of unhinged faux contrariness. At least there is always the entertainment value of the boat induced voluntary constipation with our argumentative Antipodean.

This lad's got nowt.

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jamcat wrote: Sun Apr 14, 2024 9:34 am
zerocrossing wrote: Sat Apr 13, 2024 4:26 pm I think it points to a sad state of affairs that this question is even asked. It implies some line that really isn't there at all. I make music professionally, but my brother, who's got a degree in music from one of the best music colleges in the world, does not, yet I'm allowed to say I'm a professional musician and he isn't?
No, I don’t think you can call yourself a professional musician until you’ve made more money as one than you’ve spent to become one.

By that metric, neither of you can claim it, as vanishingly few can. :hihi:
Well, I’ve only had a handful of guitar lessons, so I’m in the clear on that point. My college degree is in computer graphics and graphic design, and I’ve made more per year than I spent on college for many years, so I’m claiming it.
Zerocrossing Media

4th Law of Robotics: When turning evil, display a red indicator light. ~[ ●_● ]~

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donkey tugger wrote: Sun Apr 14, 2024 5:42 pm "Way more relevant" to what? More relevant to the discussion than the whole thread, which contains the discussion? Are you unwell?

Come on lad, at least try and make sense. Your compatriot stark-bollock bonkers edgelords at least try.

On balance, I think I rather prefer Bones for my dose of unhinged faux contrariness. At least there is always the entertainment value of the boat induced voluntary constipation with our argumentative Antipodean.

This lad's got nowt.
I'd carry a wager that i agree but heavens to betsy I speak Hollywood not Johnny Rotten. Bollocks.

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Scrubbing Monkeys wrote: Sun Apr 14, 2024 3:18 am
zerocrossing wrote: Sat Apr 13, 2024 4:26 pm I think it points to a sad state of affairs that this question is even asked. It implies some line that really isn't there at all. I make music professionally, but my brother, who's got a degree in music from one of the best music colleges in the world, does not, yet I'm allowed to say I'm a professional musician and he isn't? Silly. It's a spectrum, and everyone, from the most casual singer to the full on professional gigging musician or composer is on it. I feel that gatekeeping scares people away that might otherwise enjoy making music, even if it's on a very casual level.
Thats very interesting. Certainly if you can facilitate making music on any level you are a musician regardless of monetary reward.

I tend to think of it a bit different. In my concept it is a state of mind. I would HAVE to create music on some level using a stick if I had to simply in order to exist. Without it my soul would die. I have sacrificed too much in my life in this condition. At times I have supported myself other times not. I know many great players that could walk away from it at anytime with no consequence. They do not have the MUSICIAN condition.
I can also recognize someone with the MUSICIAN condition in a mater of moments.
I’m the same, but I’m suspicious of how the system starts labeling people at a young age. The kid who’s parents make them take piano lessons that they hate is a “budding musician,” while the kid on the swing just singing their heart out is not.
Zerocrossing Media

4th Law of Robotics: When turning evil, display a red indicator light. ~[ ●_● ]~

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zerocrossing wrote: Sun Apr 14, 2024 7:17 pm
jamcat wrote: Sun Apr 14, 2024 9:34 am
zerocrossing wrote: Sat Apr 13, 2024 4:26 pm I think it points to a sad state of affairs that this question is even asked. It implies some line that really isn't there at all. I make music professionally, but my brother, who's got a degree in music from one of the best music colleges in the world, does not, yet I'm allowed to say I'm a professional musician and he isn't?
No, I don’t think you can call yourself a professional musician until you’ve made more money as one than you’ve spent to become one.

By that metric, neither of you can claim it, as vanishingly few can. :hihi:
Well, I’ve only had a handful of guitar lessons, so I’m in the clear on that point. My college degree is in computer graphics and graphic design, and I’ve made more per year than I spent on college for many years, so I’m claiming it.
But how much have you spent on guitars, amps, pedals, rack gear, synths and software? Still less than you’ve made from gigs?
THIS MUSIC HAS BEEN MIXED TO BE PLAYED LOUD SO TURN IT UP

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VOODOO U wrote: Sun Apr 14, 2024 7:18 pm
I'd carry a badger ...
:?:
Anyone who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities.

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Jamcat, consider countless ranked professional athletes and actors as part of your prerequisites and you’ll see the limitation of your criteria.

The vast majority of professional tennis players lose money entering tournaments; only a small fraction break even. Fewer still, earn a living from it (about 400 in the tour circuit). Many play for years without sponsorships or enough money to break even let alone support a family. Many teach lessons on weekends and work other jobs but maintain their professional ranking.

Is a stage or movie actor who waits tables to make ends meet between playing gigs a professional? They pay union dues, their employers have to meet pay and work condition obligations . The frequency of the gigs and what it cost to get the work, the education, the apartment, the training or the tools is another matter. It is worth noting that these paid actors are eligible for the highest awards in the industry. If earned it is their performance that got them there not how they fed themselves or how many jobs they worked. Many in the music industry can be similarly described.

The work is often scarce; for many full of self-doubt and sacrifice often with little financial reward. We don’t need to invent further barriers to legitimacy. I think it is best to allow the artists to define themselves in this regard.











jamcat wrote: Sun Apr 14, 2024 7:23 pm
zerocrossing wrote: Sun Apr 14, 2024 7:17 pm
jamcat wrote: Sun Apr 14, 2024 9:34 am
zerocrossing wrote: Sat Apr 13, 2024 4:26 pm I think it points to a sad state of affairs that this question is even asked. It implies some line that really isn't there at all. I make music professionally, but my brother, who's got a degree in music from one of the best music colleges in the world, does not, yet I'm allowed to say I'm a professional musician and he isn't?
No, I don’t think you can call yourself a professional musician until you’ve made more money as one than you’ve spent to become one.

By that metric, neither of you can claim it, as vanishingly few can. :hihi:
Well, I’ve only had a handful of guitar lessons, so I’m in the clear on that point. My college degree is in computer graphics and graphic design, and I’ve made more per year than I spent on college for many years, so I’m claiming it.
But how much have you spent on guitars, amps, pedals, rack gear, synths and software? Still less than you’ve made from gigs?

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A musician is a person who plays a musical instrument, and who is not a DJ. DJs are NOT musicians.
“Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that."
-Martin Luther King Jr.

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Bombadil wrote: Tue Apr 16, 2024 10:08 pm A musician is a person who plays a musical instrument, and who is not a DJ. DJs are NOT musicians.
Although I agree, but just to muddy the waters...
https://studiofeshareki.com/about

( But then again turntablism is different from dj'ing so I'm not sure if I'm making a point!)

Edit: Drum n Bass came about because Grooverider and Fabio were overlaying hip house at the wrong speed with reggae and dub tunes. Not sure if that counts
I used to be Bunnyboy many many years ago

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More senseless gatekeeping.

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While some may argue that being paid for one's musical endeavors is the determining factor to be considered a musician, I believe that the essence of being a musician lies in the love and dedication to the music itself rather than the monetary aspect. Whether someone plays music as a hobby, a profession, or anything in between, the passion for creativity and self-expression through music is what ultimately defines them as a musician.

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What is a producer vs musician?
A friend claims he is not a musician but a producer.
He mostly creates music within a DAW without playing an instrument.
Last edited by Kalamata Kid on Sun Apr 21, 2024 11:24 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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