What do you consider to be a musician?
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- addled muppet weed
- 107314 posts since 26 Jan, 2003 from through the looking glass
- KVRian
- 733 posts since 20 Oct, 2023
Yazzoo is way more relevant than this whole thread.
Vince Clarke is more relevant than all of KVR.
- Boss Lovin' DR
- 13576 posts since 15 Mar, 2002 from the grimness of yorkshire
"Way more relevant" to what? More relevant to the discussion than the whole thread, which contains the discussion? Are you unwell?
Come on lad, at least try and make sense. Your compatriot stark-bollock bonkers edgelords at least try.
On balance, I think I rather prefer Bones for my dose of unhinged faux contrariness. At least there is always the entertainment value of the boat induced voluntary constipation with our argumentative Antipodean.
This lad's got nowt.
- KVRAF
- 15417 posts since 26 Jun, 2006 from San Francisco Bay Area
Well, I’ve only had a handful of guitar lessons, so I’m in the clear on that point. My college degree is in computer graphics and graphic design, and I’ve made more per year than I spent on college for many years, so I’m claiming it.jamcat wrote: ↑Sun Apr 14, 2024 5:34 pmNo, I don’t think you can call yourself a professional musician until you’ve made more money as one than you’ve spent to become one.zerocrossing wrote: ↑Sun Apr 14, 2024 12:26 am I think it points to a sad state of affairs that this question is even asked. It implies some line that really isn't there at all. I make music professionally, but my brother, who's got a degree in music from one of the best music colleges in the world, does not, yet I'm allowed to say I'm a professional musician and he isn't?
By that metric, neither of you can claim it, as vanishingly few can.![]()
Zerocrossing Media
4th Law of Robotics: When turning evil, display a red indicator light. ~[ ●_● ]~
4th Law of Robotics: When turning evil, display a red indicator light. ~[ ●_● ]~
- KVRian
- 733 posts since 20 Oct, 2023
I'd carry a wager that i agree but heavens to betsy I speak Hollywood not Johnny Rotten. Bollocks.donkey tugger wrote: ↑Mon Apr 15, 2024 1:42 am "Way more relevant" to what? More relevant to the discussion than the whole thread, which contains the discussion? Are you unwell?
Come on lad, at least try and make sense. Your compatriot stark-bollock bonkers edgelords at least try.
On balance, I think I rather prefer Bones for my dose of unhinged faux contrariness. At least there is always the entertainment value of the boat induced voluntary constipation with our argumentative Antipodean.
This lad's got nowt.
- KVRAF
- 15417 posts since 26 Jun, 2006 from San Francisco Bay Area
I’m the same, but I’m suspicious of how the system starts labeling people at a young age. The kid who’s parents make them take piano lessons that they hate is a “budding musician,” while the kid on the swing just singing their heart out is not.Scrubbing Monkeys wrote: ↑Sun Apr 14, 2024 11:18 amThats very interesting. Certainly if you can facilitate making music on any level you are a musician regardless of monetary reward.zerocrossing wrote: ↑Sun Apr 14, 2024 12:26 am I think it points to a sad state of affairs that this question is even asked. It implies some line that really isn't there at all. I make music professionally, but my brother, who's got a degree in music from one of the best music colleges in the world, does not, yet I'm allowed to say I'm a professional musician and he isn't? Silly. It's a spectrum, and everyone, from the most casual singer to the full on professional gigging musician or composer is on it. I feel that gatekeeping scares people away that might otherwise enjoy making music, even if it's on a very casual level.
I tend to think of it a bit different. In my concept it is a state of mind. I would HAVE to create music on some level using a stick if I had to simply in order to exist. Without it my soul would die. I have sacrificed too much in my life in this condition. At times I have supported myself other times not. I know many great players that could walk away from it at anytime with no consequence. They do not have the MUSICIAN condition.
I can also recognize someone with the MUSICIAN condition in a mater of moments.
Zerocrossing Media
4th Law of Robotics: When turning evil, display a red indicator light. ~[ ●_● ]~
4th Law of Robotics: When turning evil, display a red indicator light. ~[ ●_● ]~
- KVRAF
- 5828 posts since 2 Sep, 2019
But how much have you spent on guitars, amps, pedals, rack gear, synths and software? Still less than you’ve made from gigs?zerocrossing wrote: ↑Mon Apr 15, 2024 3:17 amWell, I’ve only had a handful of guitar lessons, so I’m in the clear on that point. My college degree is in computer graphics and graphic design, and I’ve made more per year than I spent on college for many years, so I’m claiming it.jamcat wrote: ↑Sun Apr 14, 2024 5:34 pmNo, I don’t think you can call yourself a professional musician until you’ve made more money as one than you’ve spent to become one.zerocrossing wrote: ↑Sun Apr 14, 2024 12:26 am I think it points to a sad state of affairs that this question is even asked. It implies some line that really isn't there at all. I make music professionally, but my brother, who's got a degree in music from one of the best music colleges in the world, does not, yet I'm allowed to say I'm a professional musician and he isn't?
By that metric, neither of you can claim it, as vanishingly few can.![]()
THIS MUSIC HAS BEEN MIXED TO BE PLAYED LOUD SO TURN IT UP
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- KVRAF
- 3028 posts since 23 Dec, 2002
Jamcat, consider countless ranked professional athletes and actors as part of your prerequisites and you’ll see the limitation of your criteria.
The vast majority of professional tennis players lose money entering tournaments; only a small fraction break even. Fewer still, earn a living from it (about 400 in the tour circuit). Many play for years without sponsorships or enough money to break even let alone support a family. Many teach lessons on weekends and work other jobs but maintain their professional ranking.
Is a stage or movie actor who waits tables to make ends meet between playing gigs a professional? They pay union dues, their employers have to meet pay and work condition obligations . The frequency of the gigs and what it cost to get the work, the education, the apartment, the training or the tools is another matter. It is worth noting that these paid actors are eligible for the highest awards in the industry. If earned it is their performance that got them there not how they fed themselves or how many jobs they worked. Many in the music industry can be similarly described.
The work is often scarce; for many full of self-doubt and sacrifice often with little financial reward. We don’t need to invent further barriers to legitimacy. I think it is best to allow the artists to define themselves in this regard.
The vast majority of professional tennis players lose money entering tournaments; only a small fraction break even. Fewer still, earn a living from it (about 400 in the tour circuit). Many play for years without sponsorships or enough money to break even let alone support a family. Many teach lessons on weekends and work other jobs but maintain their professional ranking.
Is a stage or movie actor who waits tables to make ends meet between playing gigs a professional? They pay union dues, their employers have to meet pay and work condition obligations . The frequency of the gigs and what it cost to get the work, the education, the apartment, the training or the tools is another matter. It is worth noting that these paid actors are eligible for the highest awards in the industry. If earned it is their performance that got them there not how they fed themselves or how many jobs they worked. Many in the music industry can be similarly described.
The work is often scarce; for many full of self-doubt and sacrifice often with little financial reward. We don’t need to invent further barriers to legitimacy. I think it is best to allow the artists to define themselves in this regard.
jamcat wrote: ↑Mon Apr 15, 2024 3:23 amBut how much have you spent on guitars, amps, pedals, rack gear, synths and software? Still less than you’ve made from gigs?zerocrossing wrote: ↑Mon Apr 15, 2024 3:17 amWell, I’ve only had a handful of guitar lessons, so I’m in the clear on that point. My college degree is in computer graphics and graphic design, and I’ve made more per year than I spent on college for many years, so I’m claiming it.jamcat wrote: ↑Sun Apr 14, 2024 5:34 pmNo, I don’t think you can call yourself a professional musician until you’ve made more money as one than you’ve spent to become one.zerocrossing wrote: ↑Sun Apr 14, 2024 12:26 am I think it points to a sad state of affairs that this question is even asked. It implies some line that really isn't there at all. I make music professionally, but my brother, who's got a degree in music from one of the best music colleges in the world, does not, yet I'm allowed to say I'm a professional musician and he isn't?
By that metric, neither of you can claim it, as vanishingly few can.![]()
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- KVRAF
- 2816 posts since 23 Nov, 2016 from a small city
Although I agree, but just to muddy the waters...
https://studiofeshareki.com/about
( But then again turntablism is different from dj'ing so I'm not sure if I'm making a point!)
Edit: Drum n Bass came about because Grooverider and Fabio were overlaying hip house at the wrong speed with reggae and dub tunes. Not sure if that counts
I used to be Bunnyboy many many years ago
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- KVRAF
- 3028 posts since 23 Dec, 2002
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- KVRer
- 6 posts since 16 Apr, 2024
While some may argue that being paid for one's musical endeavors is the determining factor to be considered a musician, I believe that the essence of being a musician lies in the love and dedication to the music itself rather than the monetary aspect. Whether someone plays music as a hobby, a profession, or anything in between, the passion for creativity and self-expression through music is what ultimately defines them as a musician.
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- KVRAF
- 5848 posts since 27 Jul, 2001 from Tarpon Springs, Florida, USA
What is a producer vs musician?
A friend claims he is not a musician but a producer.
He mostly creates music within a DAW without playing an instrument.
A friend claims he is not a musician but a producer.
He mostly creates music within a DAW without playing an instrument.
Last edited by Kalamata Kid on Mon Apr 22, 2024 7:24 am, edited 1 time in total.
My Studio: viewtopic.php?f=4&t=7760&p=7777146#p7777146