Steinberg Cubase vs logic

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apoclypse wrote: Fri Apr 19, 2024 9:10 am
xbitz wrote: Fri Apr 19, 2024 8:46 am ^^^
this is not a difference between the 2 DAWs, I didn't mention it.
Screenshot 2024-04-19 at 18.40.58.png

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btw. you can also drop MIDI clips into the Cubase arp plugin, and it can adapt them to chords; I don't think (AFAIK) Logic has anything like this
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cY9JxhXUo2I

8:30 > also a good stuff
That’s pretty cool. On the flip side Logics arp is a bit easier to use (imo), has a built in sequencer and also has silent capture and an add mode so you can play in what you want the arp to playback.

Not as nice as dragging and dropping in midi but still pretty useful.
80% of that can be done in Scaler 2. The only difference is the workflow, as there isn't really a massive functional gap.

The main question for the user is: "How much is that extra convenience worth to you, in dollars?"

Would I switch from Cubase to Logic, no. I don't see the point. I'd probably just stop upgrading Cubase and only switch once my version fell out of compatibility with macOS - if I were intent on staying with that platform.

It is not worth the loss in productivity and most conversations nit picking details aren't quite going to play out that way in the real world for everyone.

I generally play 75% of my MIDI in, so I'm not too concerned with chord features these days. When I was greener, that would have been a bigger selling point, though that was before every controller on earth had all of this built into the firmware.

If I said you are blocked, I won't see your posts. Please kindly refrain from quoting or replying to me.
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Trensharo wrote: Fri Apr 19, 2024 8:48 pm
apoclypse wrote: Fri Apr 19, 2024 9:10 am
xbitz wrote: Fri Apr 19, 2024 8:46 am ^^^
this is not a difference between the 2 DAWs, I didn't mention it.
Screenshot 2024-04-19 at 18.40.58.png

---

btw. you can also drop MIDI clips into the Cubase arp plugin, and it can adapt them to chords; I don't think (AFAIK) Logic has anything like this
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cY9JxhXUo2I

8:30 > also a good stuff
That’s pretty cool. On the flip side Logics arp is a bit easier to use (imo), has a built in sequencer and also has silent capture and an add mode so you can play in what you want the arp to playback.

Not as nice as dragging and dropping in midi but still pretty useful.
80% of that can be done in Scaler 2. The only difference is the workflow, as there isn't really a massive functional gap.

The main question for the user is: "How much is that extra convenience worth to you, in dollars?"

Would I switch from Cubase to Logic, no. I don't see the point. I'd probably just stop upgrading Cubase and only switch once my version fell out of compatibility with macOS - if I were intent on staying with that platform.

It is not worth the loss in productivity and most conversations nit picking details aren't quite going to play out that way in the real world for everyone.

I generally play 75% of my MIDI in, so I'm not too concerned with chord features these days. When I was greener, that would have been a bigger selling point, though that was before every controller on earth had all of this built into the firmware.
I'm not sure you mean to respond to me in this post.

Anywho. I do agree that Scalar 2 is probably a must and can do some of the stuff in Cubase, but it's nice to have that built-in and the workflow is really nice in Cubase from what I've seen. I would love to see some of that in Logic for sure. The Piano Roll hasn't really been touched in Logic for quite some time. I think the last significant thing they added was the Brush tool. So many things can be improved or added, but a built in chord mode would be nice. Funnily they have some of that stuff already built into the iPad version of GarageBand.
Studio One // Bitwig // Logic Pro // Ableton // Reason // FLStudio // MPC // Force // Maschine

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apoclypse wrote: Sat Apr 20, 2024 7:25 pm
Trensharo wrote: Fri Apr 19, 2024 8:48 pm
apoclypse wrote: Fri Apr 19, 2024 9:10 am
xbitz wrote: Fri Apr 19, 2024 8:46 am ^^^
this is not a difference between the 2 DAWs, I didn't mention it.
Screenshot 2024-04-19 at 18.40.58.png

---

btw. you can also drop MIDI clips into the Cubase arp plugin, and it can adapt them to chords; I don't think (AFAIK) Logic has anything like this
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cY9JxhXUo2I

8:30 > also a good stuff
That’s pretty cool. On the flip side Logics arp is a bit easier to use (imo), has a built in sequencer and also has silent capture and an add mode so you can play in what you want the arp to playback.

Not as nice as dragging and dropping in midi but still pretty useful.
80% of that can be done in Scaler 2. The only difference is the workflow, as there isn't really a massive functional gap.

The main question for the user is: "How much is that extra convenience worth to you, in dollars?"

Would I switch from Cubase to Logic, no. I don't see the point. I'd probably just stop upgrading Cubase and only switch once my version fell out of compatibility with macOS - if I were intent on staying with that platform.

It is not worth the loss in productivity and most conversations nit picking details aren't quite going to play out that way in the real world for everyone.

I generally play 75% of my MIDI in, so I'm not too concerned with chord features these days. When I was greener, that would have been a bigger selling point, though that was before every controller on earth had all of this built into the firmware.
I'm not sure you mean to respond to me in this post.

Anywho. I do agree that Scalar 2 is probably a must and can do some of the stuff in Cubase, but it's nice to have that built-in and the workflow is really nice in Cubase from what I've seen. I would love to see some of that in Logic for sure. The Piano Roll hasn't really been touched in Logic for quite some time. I think the last significant thing they added was the Brush tool. So many things can be improved or added, but a built in chord mode would be nice. Funnily they have some of that stuff already built into the iPad version of GarageBand.
I was just dialoging...

I wouldn't really use Scaler 2 in Cubase. I don't even install it on machines where I only have Cubase installed - the same way I don't install stuff like Melodyne Essentials on machines where I only use Cubase, or if I were only using something like Logic Pro (it's redundant).

Scaler 2 is useful for bolting on those features to DAWs that lack them, like Logic Pro, Live, Pro Tools, Samplitude Pro X, REAPER and others.

Basically, a way to get most of that without spending the $300 mark-up for Cubase Pro over something like Logic Pro. It removes much of that as a selling point, because you can get most of it for so much less than "getting the other DAW, instead." There are definitely merits to having things integrated into the base DAW, but that also applies to features that Logic Pro has that may not exist in Cubase Pro (but may be easy to bolt-on via third party plug-ins or utilities).

In DAWs that support MIDI FX (Logic (AU), Samplitude Pro X (VST), Pro Tools (AAX)) there isn't really a huge hit to workflow - once you learn how to use it (Scaler 2).

I don't really use my iPad anymore because it isn't any more portable than a 14" Laptop plugged into a USB-PD Charger in almost any scenario where I'd use an iPad.

If I said you are blocked, I won't see your posts. Please kindly refrain from quoting or replying to me.
"Notifications for Nothing" are annoying. Blocking me in return is a good way to avoid this.


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chord track becomes fun from then on when the source is some audio material
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tlhAAnRuac4
Plus, you can set how closely I follow the chord track on a per-track basis (scale, scale-chord, chord, voice as become stricter and stricter) https://steinberg.help/cubase_pro_artis ... rd_track_r

so the tracks follow the chord track, and like other tracks, you can version the chord track as well

--
what Logic has that Cubase doesn't is the ability to place plugin modulators in MIDIFX slots. Fortunately, the plugin version of Mulab can handle it so
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MM7VUoRFcnU
had to do a bit of wiring, but nah
"Where we're workarounding, we don't NEED features." - powermat

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Scaler was doing Audio to MIDI Chords before Cubase was.

It also does the thing where you can sync different instances to a master plug-in.

It already does that stuff. That's kind of what my point is. Only difference is workflow.

Logic's ability to host these plug-ins as MIDI FX just makes the workflow for using them better, since you don't have to do the manual MIDI Routing and bloat up your track count. Scaler 2 has a specific Controller MFX for Logic for use in that scenario.

Aforementioned, I hope to see VST3 MIDI FX Support in Cubase 14, as I was really hoping for it in v13. It's kind of frustrating how Steinberg trails competitors in those areas.

If I said you are blocked, I won't see your posts. Please kindly refrain from quoting or replying to me.
"Notifications for Nothing" are annoying. Blocking me in return is a good way to avoid this.


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Trensharo wrote: Sun Apr 21, 2024 3:02 pm Scaler was doing Audio to MIDI Chords before Cubase was.

It also does the thing where you can sync different instances to a master plug-in.

It already does that stuff. That's kind of what my point is. Only difference is workflow.

Logic's ability to host these plug-ins as MIDI FX just makes the workflow for using them better, since you don't have to do the manual MIDI Routing and bloat up your track count. Scaler 2 has a specific Controller MFX for Logic for use in that scenario.

Aforementioned, I hope to see VST3 MIDI FX Support in Cubase 14, as I was really hoping for it in v13. It's kind of frustrating how Steinberg trails competitors in those areas.
Another plugin to look at if you want something close to the workflow in Cubase is the Captain Chords plugins. I have both Scalar and the Captain stuff and the Captan stuff is a bit easier to use imo because it incorporates a Piano Roll in the software.
Studio One // Bitwig // Logic Pro // Ableton // Reason // FLStudio // MPC // Force // Maschine

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^^^ actually, it's really skill-dependent, but for example, I can't piece together smoothly constructed chord progressions in my head, but I always end up liking those the most and highlighting chord note-voices isn't available in the captain plugins

Image

god knows why but legoing with chords is fun :D
"Where we're workarounding, we don't NEED features." - powermat

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xbitz wrote: Mon Apr 22, 2024 10:10 am ^^^ actually, it's really skill-dependent, but for example, I can't piece together smoothly constructed chord progressions in my head, but I always end up liking those the most and highlighting chord note-voices isn't available in the captain plugins

Image

god knows why but legoing with chords is fun :D
I'm not sure what you mean by this. Captain Chords Epic shows you the chords in the bottom section of the screen. Maybe I'm misunderstanding what you mean.
Studio One // Bitwig // Logic Pro // Ableton // Reason // FLStudio // MPC // Force // Maschine

Post

apoclypse wrote: Mon Apr 22, 2024 8:43 am
Trensharo wrote: Sun Apr 21, 2024 3:02 pm Scaler was doing Audio to MIDI Chords before Cubase was.

It also does the thing where you can sync different instances to a master plug-in.

It already does that stuff. That's kind of what my point is. Only difference is workflow.

Logic's ability to host these plug-ins as MIDI FX just makes the workflow for using them better, since you don't have to do the manual MIDI Routing and bloat up your track count. Scaler 2 has a specific Controller MFX for Logic for use in that scenario.

Aforementioned, I hope to see VST3 MIDI FX Support in Cubase 14, as I was really hoping for it in v13. It's kind of frustrating how Steinberg trails competitors in those areas.
Another plugin to look at if you want something close to the workflow in Cubase is the Captain Chords plugins. I have both Scalar and the Captain stuff and the Captan stuff is a bit easier to use imo because it incorporates a Piano Roll in the software.
The two are probably largely interchangeable if you just want to generate chord progressions. Not a fan of the Piano Roll in a plug-in, personally.

I think Scaler 2 has a UX that is more similar to using the Chord Track, Pads, Chord Follow, Chord Assistant, etc. in Cubase, though.

I think Captain Chords really comes into its own when used in conjunction with their other plug-ins.

If I said you are blocked, I won't see your posts. Please kindly refrain from quoting or replying to me.
"Notifications for Nothing" are annoying. Blocking me in return is a good way to avoid this.


Post

apoclypse wrote: Mon Apr 22, 2024 2:00 pm
xbitz wrote: Mon Apr 22, 2024 10:10 am ^^^ actually, it's really skill-dependent, but for example, I can't piece together smoothly constructed chord progressions in my head, but I always end up liking those the most and highlighting chord note-voices isn't available in the captain plugins

Image

god knows why but legoing with chords is fun :D
I'm not sure what you mean by this. Captain Chords Epic shows you the chords in the bottom section of the screen. Maybe I'm misunderstanding what you mean.
the background of the PR, able to see all the possible chord note positions
Screenshot 2024-04-23 at 07.07.24.png
wait ..., created a video 2 years ago
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GhU9hVVNXGU
so even this non-liner method can work ... more or less (this is where the adaptive voicing of the chord pads also can be used if we don't want to search manually)

ps. should know about this of course
Screenshot 2024-04-23 at 07.42.58.png
but it would be a different topic :D so the method in the video works by finding chords for specific functions then we connect them as we like. Ideally, it should be done in our heads, but well, it is what it is. :party:
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"Where we're workarounding, we don't NEED features." - powermat

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Captain Chords has this. It's just a different interface. It even has a Piano Roll so it's kind of hard to not be able to line all of that up there. Like I said, different interface is all.

If I said you are blocked, I won't see your posts. Please kindly refrain from quoting or replying to me.
"Notifications for Nothing" are annoying. Blocking me in return is a good way to avoid this.


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I couldn't find that feature in it; Melody can highlight the set chords, but only the currently set notes are visible, and the Chords can only highlight the scale. And, let's say, it can only generate general chord shapes; forex.. it can't handle fixed bass notes, unlike Cubase

Image

I'd be happy if it had all the Cubase features, but it's far from that, so
cubase.gif
can't see such a feature in Chords after switching, it just brings a general chord format with the default chord note positions...but let's say isn't Cubase vs. chord generators is the name of the topic, so it doesn't really matter :)
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"Where we're workarounding, we don't NEED features." - powermat

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xbitz wrote: Mon Apr 22, 2024 9:08 pm
apoclypse wrote: Mon Apr 22, 2024 2:00 pm
xbitz wrote: Mon Apr 22, 2024 10:10 am ^^^ actually, it's really skill-dependent, but for example, I can't piece together smoothly constructed chord progressions in my head, but I always end up liking those the most and highlighting chord note-voices isn't available in the captain plugins

Image

god knows why but legoing with chords is fun :D
I'm not sure what you mean by this. Captain Chords Epic shows you the chords in the bottom section of the screen. Maybe I'm misunderstanding what you mean.
the background of the PR, able to see all the possible chord note positions
Screenshot 2024-04-23 at 07.07.24.png
wait ..., created a video 2 years ago
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GhU9hVVNXGU
so even this non-liner method can work ... more or less (this is where the adaptive voicing of the chord pads also can be used if we don't want to search manually)

ps. should know about this of course
Screenshot 2024-04-23 at 07.42.58.png
but it would be a different topic :D so the method in the video works by finding chords for specific functions then we connect them as we like. Ideally, it should be done in our heads, but well, it is what it is. :party:

Ah Okay. I didn't see the greyed out notes. That is pretty cool. I guess with Captain Chords you are not really drawing notes (though you can) so showing the chords as ghost notes probably doesn't make as much sense there.

I haven't used Cubase in a very long time so it's cool to see some of its features highlighted here.
Studio One // Bitwig // Logic Pro // Ableton // Reason // FLStudio // MPC // Force // Maschine

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It's good because even a hobbyist can have a sense of achievement, but it's not like AI where you sit in a ready-made "typically" chord progression, that's not your own, RapidComposer can call ChatGPT for chord progressions, but somehow I don't like that.

By the way, it wasn't mentioned, but the closest thing to Cubase is EZkeys 2 with its Grid Editor.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=19B5PIzHeAE&

check at 1:20, but Cubase can replay a given chord(+MIDI effects on it) with command+click on any note in the chord, and that's what's missing from this
"Where we're workarounding, we don't NEED features." - powermat

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xbitz wrote: Sat Apr 20, 2024 10:12 pm chord track becomes fun from then on when the source is some audio material
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tlhAAnRuac4
Plus, you can set how closely I follow the chord track on a per-track basis (scale, scale-chord, chord, voice as become stricter and stricter) https://steinberg.help/cubase_pro_artis ... rd_track_r

so the tracks follow the chord track, and like other tracks, you can version the chord track as well

--
what Logic has that Cubase doesn't is the ability to place plugin modulators in MIDIFX slots. Fortunately, the plugin version of Mulab can handle it so
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MM7VUoRFcnU
had to do a bit of wiring, but nah
edit: Can Does that gatekeeper plugin show the incoming audio signal?
If you don't eat yer meat, you can't have any pudding. HOW CAN YOU HAVE ANY PUDDING IF YOU DON'T EAT YER MEAT!?

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