I found the most amazing audio engine. interesting read.

[ObsoleteAcc99]

[DELETED]

[UltraJv]

There must be something odd about your setup - latency is handled by the ASIO driver for your card and isnt a function of the host. Unless you are recording tight audio drum tracks, theres no need for such a low latency. It will increase cpu load at high usage. I use Nuendo and VSTI, 5ms (harware midi is the same)is enough for me. I have an M-Audio 24/96 Audiophile card.

[unic]

Amazing. And that's from the program that used to be audio-only and mastering oriented.

[assaftzur]

The Magix Audio Studio e-version is a cut down version of Audio Studio Delux version. I agree it has splendid functions however it is very far from Samplitude. It is a great piece of software (I used to do beta testing for Magix before) for the buck, but is no match for the top high end sequencers out there.

If you own Cubase SX 2, why bother purchasing Audio Studio?

Ace

[useruseruser]

Nothing new or really astonishing.

Samplitude is now continuously developed for approximately 15 years ( or so).

That it's still buggy in the downstripped versions is really a shame and don't lead necessarily to "pro" customers (for the pro versions you actually pay allot of money) ...

Whatever, the first version (which is really promising) seems to be the version 8 Professional. Because the full implemented MIDI editing and VSTi support. But I guess it's still in childs shoes (MIDI) ...

I cannot see anything outstanding inside the last 7 versions. (There is nothing, what is not possible with Wavelab too.). Some things are even cryptic and cumbersome to me (with all this destructive / none destructive hassle - which isn't transparent and intuitive enougth).

Althougt, the ASIO connection may be excellent implemented (at least). But this depends generally from the used ASIO driver, I think.

.

[Sascha Franck]

There must be something odd about your setup - latency is handled by the ASIO driver for your card and isnt a function of the host.

Following my personal experiences, that's just nonsense.
I would even go as far as to say that it's more or less common knowledge that different hosts are handling low latencies with different efficiency.
Of course it's not a *function* of the host, but the host is actually using the ASIO drivers, so it's all up to proper implementation.

Unless you are recording tight audio drum tracks, theres no need for such a low latency.

I need low latencies for software monitoring of anything but vocals. Higher latencies than, say, 3ms (which is resulting in 6ms as latency is doubled when monitoring through software) are allready annoying me when monitoring my guitar through whatever host.

Anyways, it's amazing to see such reports.
Still waiting for an occasion to try out Samplitude 8.

[UltraJv]

Sascha, Im not sure I see youre point about hosts using ASIO differently - perhaps there is a white paper on this other than just personal stuff? When people attempt tests on DAWs - they are often forget the OS and other things that change when they install/uninstall stuff thus seeing effects which are not due to the host. As for low latencies - direct monitoring during recording (ASIO2) is what is recommended instead of using very low latency during recording.

[Sascha Franck]

Sascha, Im not sure I see youre point about hosts using ASIO differently - perhaps there is a white paper on this other than just personal stuff?

No idea, all my experiences are - well - my experiences.
And as such they are more valuable to me than any scientific explanations.
For example, there have been Logic versions handling low latencies of certain ASIO drivers way better than some Cubase versions - and it has also been exactly the opposite using another soundcard too.
So, to me it seems that things are depending on 3 things:
- OS and configuration (even if some of my personal findings were reproduceable under both 98SE and XP).
- Soundcard and drivers.
- Sequencer.

As for low latencies - direct monitoring during recording (ASIO2) is what is recommended instead of using very low latency during recording.

Not really. Some things:
- I don't like my input level to affect my monitoring level. That's why I monitor through a mixing desk whenever possible. Giving me completely independent control over input and monitoring levels. Should I need to raise the input, my monitoring volume won't be affected.
- In case I need to monitor through software, I would most likely do that because I'd be using some host effects in realtime. Guitar Rig and the likes might be good examples. For those purposes low latencies are a must. Recently I made some live recordings while mixing the band through software as well. Would've been impossible without very low latencies as well (I was using 64 samples).

Usually I don't need that low latencies though, as I still prefer to do the "basic" sound before it hits the input of my machine, so I may just use the occasional reverb for monitoring pleasure or so - for such a bit more of latency is irrelevant. Being able to properly play VSTis is fine enough (almost anything below 10ms would most often suit my needs).

[headquest]

I've just (a couple of days ago) done a similar test just using Live 4 and Tracktion, brought on by my growing concern/disappointment in Live's audio performance and CPU handling...

Overall I found distinct differences between the two programs in their audio performance, as well as in their CPU usage (although this may be down to inaccurate meters in both or one of the programs?)

I put together a track using a simple audio drum loop plus four MIDI channels, featuring 2x Pro53, 1x FM7 and 1x B4, all fed on a bus through 1x Ambience.

In Live 4 the CPU hit 80% + and audio cut out and the program ground to a complete halt. I repeated the exercise adjusting the CPU/quality knob on Ambience to 50%, and this time Live's CPU read around 65%, but audio still stuck and the program froze.

In Tracktion, the CPU hit around 60% (without even using freeze) and audio streamed without a glitch. This was without ajusting Ambience's CPU load. When I froze the four MIDI tracks, CPU reduced to about half.

I have no idea why Live 4 is particularly bad in this respect, but I can only use it by bouncing down each track one at a time. In effect, this makes Live 4 great for preparing (whether sequencing in MIDI and bouncing, or whatever) and playing back audio loops in real time, but pretty useless to me as a production tool.

My conclusions were:

1. The audio engine in Live 4 seems to cut out once I reach a CPU load of about 60%, even when I set my latency/buffer settings as high as they will go. Strange for a program that gets such rave reviews, but I know from forum posts (including ttoz) that others have found the same problem/curse.

2. Without a FREEZE function, I find I have to render everything straight to audio in Live 4.

3. Audio recording in Live 4 really doesn't sound very good to me. Again I'm not sure why. But I get artefacts and clipping even when the level meters are well below peaking.

4. Live 4 has no pdc.

5. Live 4 only has 24-bit floating point for audio and can only render at 24-bit. As I master in Audition, which has 32-bit import and processing, it follows that I can get better results using Tracktion, with its 32-bit export facility (with 64-bit coming in T2!)

For all these reasons, I think that I will use Live in future as a fun-to-use loop tool, but revert to Tracktion as my *main host*, especially with the upgrade around the corner.

Having said all that, when I re-did the whole track in Reason 2.5 using 1 each of NN-XT, NN19, Subtracktor and Maelstrom, all put through the RV7000 reverb, EQ and Compression, CPU barely hit 12% - simply awesome

So Reason (and Audition) remain the centre-piece of my set up

[bmanic]

Please remember that samplitude has some internal buffer settings outside of asio. So even if you run at 64 sample buffer the samplitude VIP buffer makes a huge difference. My guess is that this same buffer is in your Magix version and this would explain the behaviour as it's there for this very reason, to keep it rock solid at heavy CPU but this of course means that the true latency is not 1.5ms, it's higher than the reported asio latency.

Cheers!
bManic

[headquest]

Please remember that samplitude has some internal buffer settings outside of asio. So even if you run at 64 sample buffer the samplitude VIP buffer makes a huge difference. My guess is that this same buffer is in your Magix version and this would explain the behaviour as it's there for this very reason, to keep it rock solid at heavy CPU but this of course means that the true latency is not 1.5ms, it's higher than the reported asio latency.

Cheers!
bManic

Hmmm - clever

[christianmusicmaker]

I was curious to see if logic truly was the be all and end all audio engine. I was looking for a cheap mastering app, and came across samplitude eversion for 40 bux at magix.com!

i must admit, these guys know what they are doing efficiency wize.

Interesting. I picked up a copy of Magix music maker for DVD burning mainly but I thought there was a problem with the CPU meter as it just did not register any amount...very odd I thought.

I threw 4 instances of Ozone 3 and an instance of Voxengo's Prisitine space convolution reverb into a test project...the CPU registered less than 10 percent!!!

I use a Firewire Audiophile and have a latency setting of about 10ms, 1GB of ram and a 2.8 GHZ machine.

Of course Magix are also known for the sound quality of the products. Magix Music maker does not have or even need a freeze function with efficiency like that! Although Magix *audio studio* does have freeze.

[deltasp]

Yes, Magix are definitely high quality programmers making high quality stuff. It just taks a while to learn how to use it.

[jens]

the inportant functions/system calls in Samplitude/Audio Studio are apparently all programmed in assembler (unlike all other sequencers apart from SAW) - thus the better performance

[Alan]

EVERY SINGLE OTHER HOST MENTIONED HERE behaved the same way,they ALL popped and clicked like crazy at that latency, after about 70% cpu. Live 4 just constantly dropped out.

You must take into account that those hosts are dealing with gapless engines to different degree's to which there will be a trade off with CPU usage depending on how the host deals with it,not to mention PDC.Strip PDC and gapless engines out of those hosts and level the playing field.While your at it,compare this J.R. app to Samplitude itself.