Logic Pro 11 is announced

[Trensharo]

Salt?

Salt ? Bad for you.

Just pointing out how ridiculous your ‘Logic’s dongle’ comment was. But I see you’ve edited it anyway, so I guess we’re in agreement.

I use a Mac for many reasons at home and choose to use a PC at work for many other reasons. The bargain price of Logic is gravy.

I didn't edit that point out, I only elaborated on other points.

I stand by what I said.

Logic's price is not a bargain if it means paying $1,000 in component upgrade costs vs. $300 component upgrade costs in a PC laptop.

Again, stop ignoring the elephant in the room and using a reductionist argument.

Logic Pro is not a great deal if it means switching form PC to Mac and having to pay $3,000 for a computer to run a $199 piece of software. I'm not sure why this is a controversial take. It also isn't a baller deal if your requirements change and you have to buy a WHOLE NEW COMPUTER to get higher specs to accommodate your changing needs - or overspend just in case, vs. just adding the necessary upgrades later.

Do people lack any and all financial/economic literacy. Have the DAW Wars had that level of impact on humanity?

[jules99]

Like, touch grass, maybe?

[pdxindy]

Logic’s dongle price? What a f**king stupid thing to write.

That's a term mainly used by Apple haters and those with Mac envy.

[Trensharo]

Like, touch grass, maybe?

I just got back in.

I do love how talking about a DAW results in trolling and personal attacks on this forum, though.

Stop trying to be funny and respond to the content. Otherwise, keep it cute and moving...

[syntonica]

Logic’s dongle price? What a f**king stupid thing to write.

That's a term mainly used by Apple haters and those with Mac envy.

Sorry I used the D-word.

My only point was that if you want to continue to upgrade your Logic, there will come a time you will have to upgrade your Mac. This latest update makes it clear that Intel is now a second-class citizen and will continue to lose out on future updates. I think we should consider that macOS with be ARM-only sooner than later.

[Trensharo]

Logic’s dongle price? What a f**king stupid thing to write.

That's a term mainly used by Apple haters and those with Mac envy.

Sorry I used the D-word.

My only point was that if you want to continue to upgrade your Logic, there will come a time you will have to upgrade your Mac. This latest update makes it clear that Intel is now a second-class citizen and will continue to lose out on future updates. I think we should consider that macOS with be ARM-only sooner than later.

Agree.

Their issue is that it doesn't really work out mathematically with the narrative people who have these visceral reactions are pushing.

[el-bo (formerly ebow)]

Logic Pro is not a great deal if it means switching form PC to Mac and having to pay $3,000 for a computer to run a $199 piece of software.

2007 - Macbook Pro (£1800) - Logic 7 (£350)

2009 - Logic 8 upgrade (£200)

2010 Logic 9 upgrade (£200)

2013 - Macbook Pro - 2nd-hand (£1000)

2013 - Logic Pro X (£200)

2022 - Mac Mini M1 (£1000)

2024 - Logic X (£0)
--------------------------------------------------------------
17 years of Apple computers and Logic Pro - £4750
--------------------------------------------------------------

And yes...I did try Reaper

[audiouser720]

People who still call Mac ‘dongles’ are like the buzzing sound of that little f*cker mosquito in your bedroom when trying to sleep

[pdxindy]

Logic’s dongle price? What a f**king stupid thing to write.

That's a term mainly used by Apple haters and those with Mac envy.

Sorry I used the D-word.

My only point was that if you want to continue to upgrade your Logic, there will come a time you will have to upgrade your Mac. This latest update makes it clear that Intel is now a second-class citizen and will continue to lose out on future updates. I think we should consider that macOS with be ARM-only sooner than later.

I get a new computer every 4 years or so anyway. I would be doing that regardless of whether I had Logic.

And yeah, Intel is a second class citizen... it was from the moment Apple announced their switch to their own silicon.

[pdxindy]

People who still call Mac ‘dongles’ are like the buzzing sound of that little f*cker mosquito in your bedroom when trying to sleep

So true!

[Trensharo]

An M1 Mac Mini is Limited to 16GB RAM.

I actually bought an M1 MBP with 16GB RAM 1TB SSD when they released and returned it after a day or two because I was getting out of memory errors on the machine trying to run my template on it. That machine cost over $2K. And I'm pretty sure a Mac Mini was like $1,699 or so with the same spec package (the base price was higher than the current ones). I waited until the M1 Pro Released to buy and keep one, and that was an almost $3K machine.

When I got my 15" MBP in 2018, it was a $2500+ machine.

By 2021 that machine was ready to be replaced as virtual instruments and plug-ins had began to bully that CPU (i7-7700HQ). Comparable PC Laptop (cause I always keep two ) at the time was ~$1,700.

Logic Pro 7 was a $700+ DAW (700 GBP, which was around $850 back then, but it's possible they just used the same number for both currencies). That is, unless you only got Logic Express - so perhaps you got it during some discount promotion. Cubase SX 3 was 569 GBP, and also had sales, too. It was actually the cheaper DAW.

Cubase used an Update ($60)-Upgrade ($99) Cadence, so maintenance costs were $159 per two years (if you only upgraded at major version/upgrade releases). Now it's an 18 month release cadence with $99 upgrade cost. Secondhand PCs are a thing and were usually much cheaper back then, relative to Macs that had the same CPU and RAM Capacity in them.

The major issue with Macs, cost-wise, is spec gating (can't have ##GB RAM if you don't upgrade to XYZ CPU) and component upgrade costs ($200 for 256-512GB Storage Capacity Upgrade, etc.).

Also, the MacBooks became LESS upgradable over time. Even my 2013 21.5" iMac, I upgraded the RAM and added an PCIe and SATA3 SSD into it on my own - after market. That became impossible the following year, when they started soldering more and more components to the main board (and removed the free NVMe slot from the HDD models).

[Bombadil]

Two computers since LPX. Technically 3, but the one I don't count was there before LPX.
Saved enough on updates to pay a good chunk of my current M1 mini. Plus, I'll get at least another 2 years out of this machine. My M1 mini cost 50% of the previous late 2015 iMac and is far more powerful. I'm good.

[festeringheap]

I'm probably going to hold off on Upgrading after experiencing the AU breakages of Ventura 13.3.1. I don't want to risk anything like that ever happening again to me, Lol.

Hola...I'm currently on Ventura 13.2.1 - it takes me forever to upgrade OS when things just work. What AUs gave you issues when you upgraded?

[Trensharo]

Ventura 13.3.1 had a bug that broke AU Validation. So, if Logic or Final Cut Pro had to validate any plug-ins, the process would just hang forever. The only way to start the DAW or NLE was to move all of your AUs out of the Components folder and then start them. It was fixed in the Ventura update that came out right before Sonoma released (around the same time, as is customary - 13.4, IIRC).

It took weeks for this bug to be addressed. Probably close to a month, but I'd have to go back to the Apple forums to validate the dates to get a precise time frame.

You won't see this because you're on 13.2.x. That version is fine. The issue was introduced specifically in the 13.3.1 update and persisted until 13.4.

If you had your AUs already validated (validated before you took the update), it worked fine. You don't notice it until you e.g. update a plug-in, which causes a revalidation; installed a new plug-in that requires validation, or performed a Reset and Rescan in Logic Pro.

Obviously, this basically made Logic Pro unusable for a lot of people, as well a rendering their projects inaccessible since the only way to run the DAW was to effectively uninstall your plug-ins from the DAW... It was less disruptive for FCP since a lot of people do use the NLE without a high dependency on third party AU plug-ins.

I am a lot more conservative with updates on macOS than on Windows after experiences like that. That was the first time I have ever experienced such a disruptive regression introduced by such a minor OS update (a security patch, basically)... I'm conservative with their OS and client software. I wait a while to see what others are saying after the hype excitement simmers down before I pull the plug.

I don't think you will ever touch Ventura 13.3.1 because Apple will offer you the latest version, anyways. Even if it's Ventura for your Mac, it will go straight to 13.4 or later. You're safe from that specific issue.

I'm pretty sure one of the earlier Ventura versions had issues with display performance on External Displays, which is why I was taking those updates. I was waiting for them to fix that issue, and ended up running into that regression along the way.

[festeringheap]

Ventura 13.3.1 had a bug that broke AU Validation.

I don't think you will ever touch Ventura 13.3.1 because Apple will offer you the latest version, anyways. Even if it's Ventura for your Mac, it will go straight to 13.4 or later. You're safe from that specific issue.

Thanks for your post. Currently downloading the full Ventura just to stay on Ventura - 12GB just to go from 13.2 to 13.6

Was looking at Sonoma, but features didn't remotely interest me, BUT their last update 14.4.1 just fixed a bug: "Copy protected AU plug-ins designed for professional music apps may not open or pass validation"

WTF? Didn't they learn anything? Crazy.