i listen to alot of trance music. When i listen to more popular djs like Oakenfold , van dyk , and Dj Micro i start to recognize parts from their music that i recognise as hearing from other songs or producers. Im sure this happens to all of us. We all recognise sounds and can attribute them to other sources or places. When i used to listen to 90's pop/club music id hear stuff that was from another source.
Im also talking about whole loops and not just one shots. some of the instruments and bass sound exactly the same except for the notes being played of course. This brings two words to mind "cookie cutter". I dont mean that in and good or bad way.
Im trying to understand this and am wondering why this happens so much. Ive tried to figure this out on my own and came up with a few answers. Popular djs have the same intruments, tools, etc. or get their samples from the same sources. (not sure about that)But i doubt that thier is one easy answer.But i wanted to see what everyone else thought. I know that you guys have thought the same thing.Im trying to figure out the logic behind this.
Let me know what you think
Thanks for the support
Insane_Vision
DJ Micro - Tech Mix 2000
"My house is better than any alcohol or aphrodisiac"
Various Dj's/Producers sounds are so similiar? How Come?
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- KVRer
- 5 posts since 1 Apr, 2004
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- Pick Me Pick me!
- 10242 posts since 12 Mar, 2002 from a state of confusion
why does most rock music have electric guitars?
why does much jazz have trumpet, doublebass, and/or trombone?
why does most bluegrass have banjo and/or acoustic guitar?
why does much jazz have trumpet, doublebass, and/or trombone?
why does most bluegrass have banjo and/or acoustic guitar?
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- KVRer
- Topic Starter
- 5 posts since 1 Apr, 2004
ok...
i see what you mean.
but it blows me away at how good paul van dyk, dj micro, and M.I.K.E. aka PUSH have used such similiar sounds in there songs. I guess it could be by chance or choice that they use certain instruments. But the sounds from some of the tracks ive heard are so alike that it blows me away.I guess it boils down to hard work and passion for creating great music.
I was kind of hoping for a different answer. oh well
Thanks Insane_Vision
i see what you mean.
but it blows me away at how good paul van dyk, dj micro, and M.I.K.E. aka PUSH have used such similiar sounds in there songs. I guess it could be by chance or choice that they use certain instruments. But the sounds from some of the tracks ive heard are so alike that it blows me away.I guess it boils down to hard work and passion for creating great music.
I was kind of hoping for a different answer. oh well
Thanks Insane_Vision
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- KVRer
- 28 posts since 19 Jul, 2004 from Chicago, IL
I have a totally diff opinion. First, a little disclaimer - I can't stand the latest "commercial" trance... And unfortunately, by that I mean Oakenfold, Van Dyk, Micro, Push. etc... Sure some tracks are pretty good, but the reason I can't stand it is because you hit it right on the nose - they all sound the same... The same formula over and over. There's still plenty of excellent new trance out there, but the basics are getting tiresome...
Now, why do they sound the same? Because it's the sound that makes money. The commercial straight line sound. Step aside a little, and it won't fit the commercial guidelines, won't play, won't sell... As a musician, Paul Van Dyk is awful.. And I mean that. The reason people worship him, is the reason people worship all DJs - they don't understand, but most importantly, they don't give a crap... They can't even tell the difference between a DJ and an artist - but that's a whole other thread... (I can feel the flames coming on...)
A certain synth line, a hook, a bassline, is just what a special trance needs. And when you get the formula down - you've got the "Hit Track" - not that it's easy or anything, it's just... how can I put it... it's actually hard to make a track that EVERYONE would like... It's got to appeal to the MAJORITY. And once majority likes a certain sound, their brain will pick up the association of sounds that they are familiar with and like a new track as well.
The human mind is very good at recognizing patterns. So anything, like a drum loop, bass line, or a synth hook, that would trigger a memory (and hopefully a good memory), will create another "good" association.
That's why commercial sound will just keep feeding off of each other. That's why people get stuck on a certain sound and can't get off it.
And that is precisely why all the artist sound the same - they WANT to sound the same, otherwise they'll be different, otherwise they won't be commercial...
ok. now i'm ready for all of your flames...
Now, why do they sound the same? Because it's the sound that makes money. The commercial straight line sound. Step aside a little, and it won't fit the commercial guidelines, won't play, won't sell... As a musician, Paul Van Dyk is awful.. And I mean that. The reason people worship him, is the reason people worship all DJs - they don't understand, but most importantly, they don't give a crap... They can't even tell the difference between a DJ and an artist - but that's a whole other thread... (I can feel the flames coming on...)
A certain synth line, a hook, a bassline, is just what a special trance needs. And when you get the formula down - you've got the "Hit Track" - not that it's easy or anything, it's just... how can I put it... it's actually hard to make a track that EVERYONE would like... It's got to appeal to the MAJORITY. And once majority likes a certain sound, their brain will pick up the association of sounds that they are familiar with and like a new track as well.
The human mind is very good at recognizing patterns. So anything, like a drum loop, bass line, or a synth hook, that would trigger a memory (and hopefully a good memory), will create another "good" association.
That's why commercial sound will just keep feeding off of each other. That's why people get stuck on a certain sound and can't get off it.
And that is precisely why all the artist sound the same - they WANT to sound the same, otherwise they'll be different, otherwise they won't be commercial...
ok. now i'm ready for all of your flames...
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- KVRAF
- 10597 posts since 13 Jun, 2004 from Alberto Balsam
Like VitaminD was saying, all of these simularities are just trends of the genre, and every genre has them.
It's not nessecarily unoriginal or anything. It takes trends like this to keep the songs simularly catagorized into genres. There are also some very talented, unorthodox trance producers out there like BT, james holden and Sasha who rarely use popular loops and samples of Trance today.
It's not nessecarily unoriginal or anything. It takes trends like this to keep the songs simularly catagorized into genres. There are also some very talented, unorthodox trance producers out there like BT, james holden and Sasha who rarely use popular loops and samples of Trance today.
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- KVRAF
- 10597 posts since 13 Jun, 2004 from Alberto Balsam
Though I agree on your theory of the tendencies of "commercial sound", I think you are mistaking the lack of talent with the tendency to make cheese. Though most of Dyke's songs are cheese, they are usually of very high quality, production wise.asmadeus wrote:I have a totally diff opinion. First, a little disclaimer - I can't stand the latest "commercial" trance... And unfortunately, by that I mean Oakenfold, Van Dyk, Micro, Push. etc... Sure some tracks are pretty good, but the reason I can't stand it is because you hit it right on the nose - they all sound the same... The same formula over and over. There's still plenty of excellent new trance out there, but the basics are getting tiresome...
Now, why do they sound the same? Because it's the sound that makes money. The commercial straight line sound. Step aside a little, and it won't fit the commercial guidelines, won't play, won't sell... As a musician, Paul Van Dyk is awful.. And I mean that. The reason people worship him, is the reason people worship all DJs - they don't understand, but most importantly, they don't give a crap... They can't even tell the difference between a DJ and an artist - but that's a whole other thread... (I can feel the flames coming on...)
A certain synth line, a hook, a bassline, is just what a special trance needs. And when you get the formula down - you've got the "Hit Track" - not that it's easy or anything, it's just... how can I put it... it's actually hard to make a track that EVERYONE would like... It's got to appeal to the MAJORITY. And once majority likes a certain sound, their brain will pick up the association of sounds that they are familiar with and like a new track as well.
The human mind is very good at recognizing patterns. So anything, like a drum loop, bass line, or a synth hook, that would trigger a memory (and hopefully a good memory), will create another "good" association.
That's why commercial sound will just keep feeding off of each other. That's why people get stuck on a certain sound and can't get off it.
And that is precisely why all the artist sound the same - they WANT to sound the same, otherwise they'll be different, otherwise they won't be commercial...
ok. now i'm ready for all of your flames...
Paul van Dyke has also made some good tracks too, though:
Paul van Dyke - Avenue
Paul van Dyke and BT - Namistai
I also agree with you about most popular trance now. All of the currently famous Dj's/producers make grade A chedder (though very professional chedder), and it's been that way for about 3 years now.
The bar has lowered cheese-wise, but has risen production-wise.
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- KVRer
- Topic Starter
- 5 posts since 1 Apr, 2004
i actually agree with what you all have wrote. I am also sick of Commercial Trance but at the same time appreciate van dyk because i can see that he has talent and passion for the music. But Paul Van Dyk's album "the politics of Dancing" was the better of what ive heard from him in my opinion. I started listening to trance in 2000 and trance has gone in the commercial direction which i am getting sick of.
I dont have alot of history with what trance was.
But i am also finding that sasha has more of a real feeling and i am looking for more abstract artists like him. But i still go back to the commercial stuff.I still think van dyk is in it cause he loves it and it opens him up or spiritually satisfies him.
I want to commend Asmadeus cause i totally agree,and i forgot that the bottom line is what motivates some musicians to make cheese music.
Hey i get hungry every once in a while and need to eat some food. ha ha lol
I still wonder what half these djs use for equipement. Does anyone have a link so i can do alittle research?
(Ok the next statement wasnt thought out completely
so dont abuse me too much)
I think its probably harder to make cheese cause your stuck within certain parameters of what you need to make. Which i find thats its harder for me to make something that i want to make. (though im not professional) The style of music is determined after ive made alittle of it.
I have trouble finishing everything though.....
cool beans
Insane_Vision
I dont have alot of history with what trance was.
But i am also finding that sasha has more of a real feeling and i am looking for more abstract artists like him. But i still go back to the commercial stuff.I still think van dyk is in it cause he loves it and it opens him up or spiritually satisfies him.
I want to commend Asmadeus cause i totally agree,and i forgot that the bottom line is what motivates some musicians to make cheese music.
Hey i get hungry every once in a while and need to eat some food. ha ha lol
I still wonder what half these djs use for equipement. Does anyone have a link so i can do alittle research?
(Ok the next statement wasnt thought out completely
so dont abuse me too much)
I think its probably harder to make cheese cause your stuck within certain parameters of what you need to make. Which i find thats its harder for me to make something that i want to make. (though im not professional) The style of music is determined after ive made alittle of it.
I have trouble finishing everything though.....
cool beans
Insane_Vision
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- KVRer
- Topic Starter
- 5 posts since 1 Apr, 2004
OMG LOLZ TARNCE IS FOR LITTLE KIDS ITS LIKE SO FORMULAIC AND IT SUX ROFLRSVP
_____________________________________________________
DOOD
sorry i dont speak spanish
Me yamo es
Insane_Vision
_____________________________________________________
DOOD
sorry i dont speak spanish
Me yamo es
Insane_Vision
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- KVRAF
- 10597 posts since 13 Jun, 2004 from Alberto Balsam
That's not spanish It's moron.InSane_ViSion wrote:OMG LOLZ TARNCE IS FOR LITTLE KIDS ITS LIKE SO FORMULAIC AND IT SUX ROFLRSVP
_____________________________________________________
DOOD
sorry i dont speak spanish
Me yamo es
Insane_Vision
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- KVRer
- 1 posts since 26 Nov, 2002
before this thread turns into a trance vs. all other genre thread.
within all genres there is "what one considers" good and bad, cheesy and cool. Its subjective, so remember to always precede comments with "my opinion is", trust me i always have to try to remember to do this myself.
One man's garbage is another's gold. And vice versa.
and i do agree with asma about why patterns seem to stay.
Or we can all make hiphop and make it seem like we put shakers in places that do absolutely f**king nothing, use crappy uninteresting room verbs on vocals, and use the dullest kicks around
I was having this convo with a friend recently, and he had this theory that the reason dance is gettin its ass handed to it by hiphop people (and the club scene dying as a result of people going back to their hiphop crap) , is because all genres (or most) of hiphop's producers work together very often, and dance genre's each mostly dislike each other and talk shit about each style... I used to do this but just dont anymore, each genre has LOTS to offer the others.
And this brings me to the point of this novella, by looking at the styles u may not consider to be the coolest or "your sound", you may find elements that just might work for you if tweaked properly, that could break the mold of what someone said has lasted for the last 3 years or so, which is pretty accurate.
within all genres there is "what one considers" good and bad, cheesy and cool. Its subjective, so remember to always precede comments with "my opinion is", trust me i always have to try to remember to do this myself.
One man's garbage is another's gold. And vice versa.
and i do agree with asma about why patterns seem to stay.
Or we can all make hiphop and make it seem like we put shakers in places that do absolutely f**king nothing, use crappy uninteresting room verbs on vocals, and use the dullest kicks around
I was having this convo with a friend recently, and he had this theory that the reason dance is gettin its ass handed to it by hiphop people (and the club scene dying as a result of people going back to their hiphop crap) , is because all genres (or most) of hiphop's producers work together very often, and dance genre's each mostly dislike each other and talk shit about each style... I used to do this but just dont anymore, each genre has LOTS to offer the others.
And this brings me to the point of this novella, by looking at the styles u may not consider to be the coolest or "your sound", you may find elements that just might work for you if tweaked properly, that could break the mold of what someone said has lasted for the last 3 years or so, which is pretty accurate.