Coming up: Yamaha Montage standalone VST

[Aloysius]

If Elton John buys it, so will I.

[beely]

Or perhaps Yamaha want to keep it as an exclusive, very nice freebie for people buying the hardware, as an incentive for *more* people to buy the hardware than otherwise would (eg, if they're thinking about buying a similar keyboard from a competitor instead).

Up to now, it's clear that Yamaha have not been in the slightest bit interested in the plugin market, so it's not like they've been worrying about how much revenue they've lost by not doing plugins for the past decade, like Korg or Roland have done. Yamaha have made "companion" free software for their hardware for a long time, but it's clear that for selling product, it's hardware they've always been interested in.

We'll see what happens in the future, possibly they'll open it up as a standalone product when hardware sales have slowed, perhaps...

[JamminFool]

Have you thought about buying the hardware with plugin included and then selling the hardware unused for a good price keeping the plugin.
Should be possible!?

so the new owner would not get the plugin? hmmm...

[IvyBirds]

Up to now, it's clear that Yamaha have not been in the slightest bit interested in the plugin market, so it's not like they've been worrying about how much revenue they've lost by not doing plugins for the past decade,

That is simply incorrect. Yamaha owns Steinberg. Under Steinberg branding Yamaha sells Cubase, and their flagship workstation HALion. I am guessing Yamaha makes more revenue from their Steinberg division than Korg and Roland makes from selling plugins

The Montage Plugin BTW is full of Steinberg branding and doesn't work without the Steinberg E Licenser

[IvyBirds]

Sure, there are people like you, but I suspect there are a lot more people like me who would never, under any circumstances buy the hardware. So Yamaha’s option is get nothing from me, or something.

FWIW Yamaha already sells the Montage in a cheaper form called MODX

When you think about it it costs Yamaha money to make the MODX, warehouse the MODX, ship the MODX from Asian to distribution centers all over the world, where it gets warehoused again and shipped out to retail where it's sold to them at wholesale prices

Yamaha's net profit per MODX sold can't be more than the $300-$400 USD they would make selling a hypothetical Montage Plugin, which they can sell direct to the public with very little overhead outside of leasing some server space

And let's face reality Montage like the Motif before it, is a tool for gigging musicians to play on stage who are looking for a rock solid road warrior, it's target market is gigging musicians and American Houses of Worship, not plugin buyers

As good as the AWM2 Sampling and Synthesis/Rompler engine is (and it's excellent) in plugin land you can buy HALion7 and have a vast collection of quality sample based bread and butter sounds, the same FM-X Engine, and a VA synth

If you are just looking for Rompler sounds Omnisphere with the addition of Keyscape from Spectrasonics arguably gives you better Rompler Sounds

My guess is musicians who own a Montage and also make heavy use of plugins already owned Kontact, Omnisphere, HALion, or other higher end plugins before they got a Montage

[beely]

That is simply incorrect. Yamaha owns Steinberg.

I know Yamaha owns Steinberg, and they have for some time, but you know this is not what we are talking about in this context - we are talking about Yamaha making and selling plugins of Yamaha gear, like other companies do.

Yamaha seemingly have no interest to date making/selling Yamaha-branded (or Steinberg branded for that matter) plugins of classic Yamaha synths, be it CS, or DX/TX, or FS/SY/TG/AN whatever, or plugins of more recent designs, even when they own a software company that invented the instrument plugin format, and nor have Yamaha (evidently) been tasking Steinberg to make Yamaha synth plugins either.

So no, my comments are not incorrect - I'm talking about Yamaha's desire to make Yamaha synth plugins, which just does not seem to exist. Yamaha *do* make - and did long before they acquired Steinberg - software to support their hardware though. This is what I mean by "no interest", not that Yamaha own a subsidiary company that makes software plugins, to be clear on the context in case it wasn't obvious.

So if *Yamaha* do end up selling the Montage plugin as a separate product, that will indeed be a new thing and an indication that they do have a desire to step into the plugin market...

[IvyBirds]

That is simply incorrect. Yamaha owns Steinberg.

I know Yamaha owns Steinberg, and they have for some time, but you know this is not what we are talking about in this context - we are talking about Yamaha making and selling plugins of Yamaha gear, like other companies do.

Yamaha seemingly have no interest to date making/selling Yamaha-branded (or Steinberg branded for that matter) plugins of classic Yamaha synths, be it CS, or DX/TX, or FS/SY/TG/AN whatever, or plugins of more recent designs,

Actually inside of HALion7 is FM Lab which allows you to program FM patches from the DX7, TX81Z, and SY99, it even loads Sysex from the DX7 and TX81Z. It also is the same FM-X 8op FM that's inside of Montage. You can also buy it as a stand alone instrument outside of HALion

You seem to ignore the fact that in hardware or software Yamaha has very little interest in remaking the CS

I also don't think the plugin market for reissued classics is worth exploring for the big Japanese 3. Next month will mark exactly two years since Roland released a new instrument that is a recreation of their back catalog of hardware. It's been quite a while since Korg has done it either and they are releasing a Arp2600 at some point over the next few months not a Korg back catalog instrument

[beely]

Actually inside of HALion7 is FM Lab which allows you to program FM patches from the DX7, TX81Z, and SY99, it even loads Sysex from the DX7 and TX81Z. It also is the same FM-X 8op FM that's inside of Montage. You can also buy it as a stand alone instrument outside of HALion

Yes, Yamaha and Steinberg do of course share technology. Different thing, and not the point I'm making.

(Actually, I wasn't aware of this FM Lab thing in Halion before this thread, so that's new to me - I had a look at it, it's a Steinberg-designed and branded product, not a Yamaha one, so it's a little outside the scope of the point I was making.)

You seem to ignore the fact that in hardware or software Yamaha has very little interest in remaking the CS

No, I don't ignore that fact, I'm well aware of it, and it is just more in support of the point that Yamaha don't seem (to date) have an interest in competing in the plugin instrument market in the way other similar companies do - it's exactly the point I'm making. I'm not quite sure why you seem to be so intent to try and prove this incorrect..?

I also don't think the plugin market for reissued classics is worth exploring for the big Japanese 3.

I certainly think that Yamaha don't think it's worth it (see the exact point I've been making). The other two, if you mean Korg and Roland, both compete in the plugin market, have done for quite a long time now, and make and sell plugins of both their classic historical instruments, and their more recent ones. Again, Yamaha seen entirely disinterested in doing this to date, either pre- or post-Steinberg acquisition. This was the point you keep trying to tell me I'm incorrect on. I'm honestly surprised anyone's arguing that this isn't the case... (!)

If Yamaha start selling the Montage plugin as a separate product, and/or start selling plugin emulations of their classic synthesisers, then the situation will be different and they will now clearly have decided to enter the software instrument plugin market. Until then, my point is valid.

Next month will mark exactly two years since Roland released a new instrument that is a recreation of their back catalog of hardware. It's been quite a while since Korg has done it either and they are releasing a Arp2600 at some point over the next few months not a Korg back catalog instrument

This has nothing to do with the point I'm making in any way...

[IvyBirds]

Yes, Yamaha and Steinberg do of course share technology. Different thing, and not the point I'm making.

What is the point you are making? You claim erroneously that Yamaha doesn't sell plugins they do, and have for a long time. In fact they are so into selling plugins and other music software they have an entire division of the company called Steinberg which they purchased decades ago just to sell and market music software

Yamaha is a very large corporation they make motorcycles, jet skis, lawnmowers, chainsaws, home theater electronics, musical instruments and musical software to name a few. As a large corporation each product line tends to have its own division and leadership as the guy making and marketing motorcycles probably doesn't understand the lawnmower market and neither of them understand the software division

The music software division makes a really good FM plugin called analog Lab that is 40+ years of Yamaha FM instruments in a single plugin. From the DX7 to the Montage and everything in-between. It can even read DX7 and TX81Z Sysex.

Any claim that Yamaha doesn't market their old hardware in plugin form is total crap

If you are looking for a 1:1 emulation of the DX7 just buy Plogue OPS7, I own both. In a world where OPS7 exists, is excellent, and sells for $50 why would Yamaha enter that market?

What Yamaha doesn't have in any form is a CS80 but that really has zero to do with plugins and more to do with Yamaha as a corporation

They do make some CS80 presets for Montage M that you can download and install but gotta say they pretty much suck

[Gam456]

Montage has three main engines FM-X, AWM2, and AN1-X. FM-X has already been ported over to HALion.

FM Lab is not FM-X, FM-X is not FM Lab. Only a couple of stuff are included

FM Lab absolutely is FM-X even Steinberg says so right on the product page for it
https://www.steinberg.net/vst-instruments/fm-lab/

Do You own a Montage ? I do

FM-X do not have custon algo
FM-X do not have MSEG enveloppe
FM-X do not have 4 LFO
FM-X do not have stepmod
FM-X do not have a rwack of 5 effects

FM-LAB do not have multiple morphing
FM-Lab do not have motion sequence modulation
FM-Lab can't open a FM-X preset

[IvyBirds]

Montage has three main engines FM-X, AWM2, and AN1-X. FM-X has already been ported over to HALion.

FM Lab is not FM-X, FM-X is not FM Lab. Only a couple of stuff are included

FM Lab absolutely is FM-X even Steinberg says so right on the product page for it
https://www.steinberg.net/vst-instruments/fm-lab/

Do You own a Montage ? I do

FM-X do not have custon algo
FM-X do not have MSEG enveloppe
FM-X do not have 4 LFO
FM-X do not have stepmod
FM-X do not have a rwack of 5 effects

FM-LAB do not have multiple morphing
FM-Lab do not have motion sequence modulation
FM-Lab can't open a FM-X preset

I see you haven't bothered to actually read my posts but want to continue to argue

Yes I have a Montage M, and I also have HALion7

And if you have bothered to read what I wrote you would seen that I said there are differences between the two

But even Steinberg says the FM-X engine is inside of HALion7. If you actually had a Montage and used it alongside of HALion7 you would agree

So why don't you contact Steinberg and inform them on how FM-X is not inside of HALion7

[Gam456]

I see you haven't bothered to actually read my posts but want to continue to argue

You neither. Even with a glimps of difference. You keep saying they are the same.
FM Lab only include algo from FM-X, like the DX7 and others models. Nothing more.

[Hanz Meyzer]

I think they want to raise the prices by adding the vsti… btw does the plugin now provide full edit? Seen such statement in a sonic state video, but can’t find any info here… i also would be interested in that plugin, but not the hardware… too huge in size, too expensive, barely daw controller capabilities…

[agharta]

Yamaha have history of releasing software and ancient history as we are talking forty years ago and on cartridges.
It wasn't tied to a keyboard but it was tied to a computer.
I owned one and it was the Yamaha CX5M.
I had the sequencer cartridge also.

[Gam456]

I certainly think that Yamaha don't think it's worth it (see the exact point I've been making). The other two, if you mean Korg and Roland, both compete in the plugin market, have done for quite a long time now, and make and sell plugins of both their classic historical instruments, and their more recent ones. Again, Yamaha seen entirely disinterested in doing this to date, either pre- or post-Steinberg acquisition. This was the point you keep trying to tell me I'm incorrect on. I'm honestly surprised anyone's arguing that this isn't the case... (!)

Indeed. Yamaha is probably the bigest brand in music and instruments, piano, brass instruments, percusion, drums, bass, guitar, workstation, amp modeling with Helix, strings, audio, pro audio...
and motorcycle, waverunners, boat

I think they want to raise the prices by adding the vsti… btw does the plugin now provide full edit?

I believe for the next version end of june